Posts by done4good

74

DC2015 New Release: Brochure "Return to Jehovah" for those who faded/left

by Designer Stubble in

it appears that a new 16-page brochure, with the title "return to jehovah" is to be released at the regional convention (dc) this year.

it would be written specifically for those faded or da/df.chapters are:a letter from the governing body1.

the lost one i will search for2.

DC2015 New Release: Brochure "Return to Jehovah" for those who faded/left

by Designer Stubble in

it appears that a new 16-page brochure, with the title "return to jehovah" is to be released at the regional convention (dc) this year.

it would be written specifically for those faded or da/df.chapters are:a letter from the governing body1.

the lost one i will search for2.

done4good

Londo111 - Growth is at a standstill in many places. Most baptisms are children of JWs...and only a third of those remain who were raised JW. There are many former JWs...it would make sense to try to get some growth that they are not seeing from door to door.

I suppose...but this really smacks of desperation, if that were the reason.

d4g

74

DC2015 New Release: Brochure "Return to Jehovah" for those who faded/left

by Designer Stubble in

it appears that a new 16-page brochure, with the title "return to jehovah" is to be released at the regional convention (dc) this year.

it would be written specifically for those faded or da/df.chapters are:a letter from the governing body1.

the lost one i will search for2.

done4good

Why would they even bother with this?

d4g

11

Nature of the Word "Spiritual" Amongst Witnesses

by freemindfade in

even as an atheist i consider myself spiritual, always have, metaphysics and spiritual discussions about enlightenment and so on i find interesting, even if belief in a yhwh is not in me.

i want to propose this simple definition of the word "spiritual" among jehovah's witnesses.. spiritual = indoctrination or indoctrinated.

i have been told how i'm "just not a spiritual man".

done4good

Even as a JW I never ascribed to the JW definition of "spiritual".

d4g

47

If someone asked you, 'Are you a righteous person'? What would be your answer?

by Esse quam videri in

what would be your answer?

are you are a righteous person?

on a scale of 1-10, how righteous do you feel you are?.

done4good

Those who do not believe in righteousness may leave. Please close the door quietly behind you.

Typical judgmental religionist attitude. I stopped reading after that. Quite "righteous"...

d4g

15

Breaking cognitive dissonance - or - how to get Bill Cosby to help a dub see the light

by undercover in

jw
friends

let me preface this by saying, i don't know if mr. cosby is guilty of all that he's being accused of.

the number of women coming out against him is pretty damning, but no real proof has been offered (that i'm aware of anyway).

and it is this circumstantial, hearsay evidence that can actually play into the hands of someone trying to get a jw to grasp the seriousness of the child abuse claims in the jw religion.. how so?.

done4good

Generally, calling someone on or pointing out areas that should cause their cognitive dissonance does not work, (immediately). The immediate response is almost always some kind of mental shut down.

Longer term though, I believe this can work. It plants a seed. Whether that seed will germinate depends on other factors outside of our control. To push beyond the seed planting phase of this, will almost certainly backfire.

If done carefully, and kept brief, I believe this approach can work long term.

d4g

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

done4good

Londo111 nailed it.

This is a matter of social evolution.

Phizzy - I think we are on the same page. I did understand the OP question, however variants of this question get asked time and again. My point is that we are largely asking the wrong question. It is a matter of stating the obvious that they know something when they do it, (such as lie). Unfortunately, for these guys, that doesn't matter because they believe they are doing so for good reason, (the end justifies the means).

If we are truly going to understand the way high control groups work, we need to understand the science(s) involved. As Londo111 points out, the organization did not develop into the high control group that it is overnight. This is a matter of evolving certain social memes that "worked", (one of which is evolving techniques used for manipulation). This is a gradual process, given the psychology involved. Looking for some silver bullet to point to as "the" control mechanism being employed, (what most folks here are asking when they ask questions such as do the GB know they are using mind control techniques), is really not possible, due to the gradual nature of its development and the nuance involved. It takes some time out to fully see this, (and also comparing the WT to other high control groups and looking for parallels), however it does become clearer over time. The R&F do it too, it just gets worse the higher one "makes" it in the org.

d4g

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

done4good

Phizzy-
When thy mis-quote completely, as in the "Trinity" Brochure, and countless Watchtower articles, of course they know they are lying.
Ray Franz and I had some very interesting conversations, in which he tried to help me on my way, his love and total honesty were natural parts of his personality, I cannot see him ever as being happy with subterfuge and half-truth even, let alone downright lying.

I would certainly agree that they know they are lying when they purposely misquote, misrepresent, etc. That is still not deliberate mind control in of itself. We need to remember that these guys believe they are the closest thing to god on earth. If they believe that hubris, they can justify any deception, misrepresentation, or even outright lies in the name of the "greater good", whatever that may be from their perspective. Hell, they have managed to manipulate themselves this way.

I have talked to Ray myself, and agree he was an honest man. However, I would argue that he would even say he was not truly exceptional. Ray was forced to resign. He continued to go to JW meetings in Alabama. He remained a JW until he was dis-fellowshipped a year and a half later. My point here is that something made him "wake up", but it was not obvious until he was completely out. It is unfair and inaccurate to state that others in leadership positions are not equally as blinded. They are indeed blinded by their own hubris. That IS the problem.

d4g

48

How is Joe Publisher reacting to all the TV coverage on the abuse cases?

by 4thgen in

please pardon if this a repeated topic.

i have had virtually no contact with any witnesses beside my mother for the past few years.

she watches tv constantly and claims she has never seen anything on the watchtower abuse cases.

done4good

JWs generally speaking:

1. Don't watch the news, much less actually read anything.

2. Would likely view anything negative concerning the organization as specious, if not outright lies.

3. IF they get passed 1 and 2, then it is usually only a short matter of time before they feel the need to relieve themselves of their cognitive dissonance, and adopt the attitude of #2. (I have seen this in action).

d4g

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

done4good

Phizzy-

To put it more bluntly, they know they are lying.

Did Ray Franz "know" he was lying while on the GB?