done4good

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Posts by done4good

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  50

  Will Child Abuse Issue Keep Growing Like A Forest Fire?

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i don't know if a commercial will come up and i can't find this on youtube as it is probably copyright material or i am just not in a good search pattern today.

  anyway, try to view this if you haven't seen it:.

  https://rutube.ru/video/0ba7a3ee7e89dbbc730c4af32032e33b/?ref=logo .

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  done4good

  DesirousOfChange - So often, I think WE are guilty of looking at things related to JWLand with the midset of "wishful thinking". We would like think that Candice Conti would have a huge impact. But it really didn't. A few of the R&F took note, but it wasn't an earthquake or forest fire.

  The Commission investigation may prove to be a forest fire in Australia, but that's doubtful if it will spread to the US. Most Americans can't see past their property lines (NIMBY) let alone see anything going on in the rest of the world.

  While I agree with the "wishful thinking" element, there is more to this than an isolated case. No one case is going to make that big of an impact, however, these cases are getting noticed, and it weighs on the minds of the R&F in the form of cognitive dissonance. CD always has a breaking point, at least in aggregate. It will take time, but many will wake up because of this reporting.

  We need to stop looking as these things as the one big thing that will bring the org. down. That will not happen. I say this over and over, this is about social evolution. Our society today is not tolerant of protecting a religious organization at the expense of innocent children and their families, thank goodness. At one time, it was common for these types of things to be swept under the rug because it was "too unspeakable" to be mentioned. That is precisely why religious organizations and other organizations got away with this problem for so long. Society no longer tolerates this.
  

  All of this is about the big picture. The WT organization looks very, very, foolish being on the wrong side of this argument. JWs will naturally want to distance themselves from it. It is human nature. Just like any other tragic learning, the initial response by JW will be that of denial and disbelief, (cognitive dissonance), however eventually, with enough reminders and persistence, the CD will be begin to wear on them, at which point they will need to accept facts. This tipping point takes place when it becomes less painful to adjust to the new knowledge, rather than trying to support the old in vain.
  

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  58

  Governing body deceiving members on purpose?

  by wwjdnwt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was born into this religion.

  i was a jw for well over 30 years.

  i did much research before i had internet, i compared bibles and prayed deeply to help me to know if this was the truth.

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  done4good

  Sir82 - They are either evilly deceptive or mind-bogglingly stupid. Either way it's not good.

  Actually a third option, (and I believe the most likely), is they are both.

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  40

  Is the two-witness rule really unreasonable?

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm picturing a situation in which a savvy 12 year old doesn't like the house rules that mom's new husband has put into place.

  or something along that line.

  i can certainly agree that protection of children is paramount, but who protects the real victim in those cases?

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  done4good

  Let's rephrase the question - Are JCs reasonable to begin with?

  The above question in the OP becomes moot once the correct answer is given to this question.

  Edit : Child abuse needs to be dealt with be legal authorities, not church leaders of any kind. Since the organization stubbornly refuses to accept that, they are now getting their just desserts by nations that are far better socially evolved than a 19th century end-times religion.
  

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  45

  Governing Body, painted in a corner, now what?

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the governing body have painted themselves in a corner, so to speak.

  if they acknowledge their response to abuse claims was insensitive, unloving and inadequate they are denying the belief that "god's way" is best and risk losing abuse cases.

  if they stick with it and say it is "god's way according to the bible" they will be seen as cult leaders and risk losing abuse cases.

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  done4good

  They will certainly try to spin it the way cappytan quotes them as remarking on previously. That said, the bigger problem is not going away. If it is not Candice Conti, or the Royal Commission, it will be something else. These cases are now beginning to hit the organization fast and furiously, and the GB know it. AMIII would not have mentioned the above quoted in a broadcast a few months back, were that not the case.

  This is just the tip of the iceberg, folks.

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  58

  Governing body deceiving members on purpose?

  by wwjdnwt in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was born into this religion.

  i was a jw for well over 30 years.

  i did much research before i had internet, i compared bibles and prayed deeply to help me to know if this was the truth.

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  done4good

  maksutov - I think they both believe it (consciously) and also know it is not true (suppressed) - just like I did when I was a member. I suspect they can bear a lot more cognitive dissonance than average because they have more to lose from admitting to being wrong.

  Closest to the truth, for sure.

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  20

  Breaking news: US mass shooting

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  it's getting to the point where cnn should start announcing "breaking news" if there *hasn't* been a mass shooting !.

  it's crazy.. i was watching the 70's documentary they are running and that's the point when media hype about mass serial killers seemed to begin the danger-gun-solution hype cycle.

  sure, people had guns before then but nowhere near like it is now.. when will it end?

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  done4good

  John Aquila -

  You are correct. The main differences there are the level of regulation imposed on nukes and fear associated with the obvious outcome of using them, (the old MAD concept from the cold war days). Theoretically all those factors do is buy time, they are no guarantee nukes will not be used in the future. That is the sober truth.
  

  This would make for a another good thread, really

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  20

  Breaking news: US mass shooting

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  it's getting to the point where cnn should start announcing "breaking news" if there *hasn't* been a mass shooting !.

  it's crazy.. i was watching the 70's documentary they are running and that's the point when media hype about mass serial killers seemed to begin the danger-gun-solution hype cycle.

  sure, people had guns before then but nowhere near like it is now.. when will it end?

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  done4good

  Btw, I expect lots of dislikes, and little in the way of cogent argument against my assertion above. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

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  20

  Breaking news: US mass shooting

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  it's getting to the point where cnn should start announcing "breaking news" if there *hasn't* been a mass shooting !.

  it's crazy.. i was watching the 70's documentary they are running and that's the point when media hype about mass serial killers seemed to begin the danger-gun-solution hype cycle.

  sure, people had guns before then but nowhere near like it is now.. when will it end?

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  done4good

  Guns, are not the problem. The amount of non violent gun owners far outweigh these acts carried out by these people. Take the guns away, and a psychopath will find another weapon whether it's knives, cars, bombs, etc, etc.

  Understand probability theory, and you will understand why you are wrong. More guns = greater probability they will be used, and misused, regardless of the majority of ownership being of those who are non-violent and responsible. This is science, and something right wing nuts just can't get their heads around.

  No one is saying most gun owners are violent. We need to re-frame this discussion as a narrative, so non-math and non-science folks can understand. Too many in the US that just don't know how to understand numbers, so I suppose we need to dummy this discussion down, aka WT style. Maybe then it will sink in.
  

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  23

  Facing up to the reality of the world

  by purrpurr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since becoming atheist i have been paying more attention to world events and issues.

  this is giving me some worry's when i see what's going on.

  as a jw i could just dismiss stuff saying "armageddon is coming, jehovah will look after us" etc etc now of course i can't do that.

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  done4good

  This is a normal response to existential fear(s). Religion plays a role for some in allying such. This may be good for some, but really does little more than provide a drug for most. Very fundamentalist religions, (i.e. like JW), are very black and white when it comes to things, (such as world events), and as such provide a powerful catch-all drug, (they social equivalent of heroin), for explaining them. In the case of JWs, this would be their Armageddon and Paradise doctrines. When one leaves such an extreme belief system, it is very common to experience withdrawal, and respond to negative world events with existentialism and with a certain amount of fear.

  As others have pointed out, when the bigger picture is considered, (all known human history), today is a much safer and happier time to live in on a world wide scale, than any other time in human history.

  Hint: Reading a lot will help.
  

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  43

  Yet more trolley (in)activity

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am currently having to spend a little time waiting for an appointment in the vicinity of a central london station.

  whilst waiting i am catching up on some work in a cafe.

  i can see a couple of trolleys and have been watching them for around an hour now.. not one person has stopped to take literature.

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  done4good

  I have to say, I work in NYC and have yet to see one of these things.

  I also have not even seen JW in my neighborhood in NJ in several years.

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