Posts by done4good

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

done4good

Phizzy-
When thy mis-quote completely, as in the "Trinity" Brochure, and countless Watchtower articles, of course they know they are lying.
Ray Franz and I had some very interesting conversations, in which he tried to help me on my way, his love and total honesty were natural parts of his personality, I cannot see him ever as being happy with subterfuge and half-truth even, let alone downright lying.

I would certainly agree that they know they are lying when they purposely misquote, misrepresent, etc. That is still not deliberate mind control in of itself. We need to remember that these guys believe they are the closest thing to god on earth. If they believe that hubris, they can justify any deception, misrepresentation, or even outright lies in the name of the "greater good", whatever that may be from their perspective. Hell, they have managed to manipulate themselves this way.

I have talked to Ray myself, and agree he was an honest man. However, I would argue that he would even say he was not truly exceptional. Ray was forced to resign. He continued to go to JW meetings in Alabama. He remained a JW until he was dis-fellowshipped a year and a half later. My point here is that something made him "wake up", but it was not obvious until he was completely out. It is unfair and inaccurate to state that others in leadership positions are not equally as blinded. They are indeed blinded by their own hubris. That IS the problem.

d4g

48

How is Joe Publisher reacting to all the TV coverage on the abuse cases?

by 4thgen in

please pardon if this a repeated topic.

i have had virtually no contact with any witnesses beside my mother for the past few years.

she watches tv constantly and claims she has never seen anything on the watchtower abuse cases.

done4good

JWs generally speaking:

1. Don't watch the news, much less actually read anything.

2. Would likely view anything negative concerning the organization as specious, if not outright lies.

3. IF they get passed 1 and 2, then it is usually only a short matter of time before they feel the need to relieve themselves of their cognitive dissonance, and adopt the attitude of #2. (I have seen this in action).

d4g

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

done4good

Phizzy-

To put it more bluntly, they know they are lying.

Did Ray Franz "know" he was lying while on the GB?

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

done4good

Just for clarity, I am not stating the entire effort is "subconscious". The WT has obviously learned to harness and refine their manipulative techniques quite effectively. However, to miss the point that subconscious elements are at the root of the problem, only serves to misunderstand the problem and how to deal with it correctly.There is clearly a correlation of mind control effects and JW behavior, but that does not prove causation.

Mind control is real yes, but there is no no mind control boogeyman, so stop looking for one.

d4g

64

Mind control.

by New day in

in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

do you think this is a conscious ploy?

if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

done4good

For the most part, it is not a conscious ploy. There are no "books" on how to mind control someone, (at least in a direct and complete manner).

The JW system of belief, is by its very nature, a manipulative system. JWs are "taught" to be manipulative through years of indoctrination and through example. They are rewarded by that very system for doing so. That is how one climbs the JW corporate ladder. The GB are the most manipulated of anyone in the hierarchy, and therefore can bald face lie about anything to anyone. This serves to support their own belief, as well reinforce that belief on others.

This has everything to do with how individuals respond to existential fears. Religions by their very nature play on this inherit human quirk. The more black and white, (read fundamental), the system is, the greater the potential to become addicted to catering to one's existential fear. This is what Karl Marx was talking about referring to religion being the "Opium of the People".

How this principle applies within the context of the WT is unique, and this is where many misunderstand the nature of the leadership. The leaders have long since become addicted to catering to their own existential fear, and this is why they feel no conscious tweak from the cognitive dissonance they should be experiencing. The level of manipulation the leaders exert on the rank and file is directly proportional to the level black and white, narrow minded, fundamental belief, afforded by a eschatological religion. In other words, the world has not ended, (as we said it would), so we need to invent reasons why it has not, and make sure to control everyone's belief that it will end "soon". This is done as much to appease their own belief, as it is to control others. All they have to really "believe" is that they are god's chosen representatives, (technically the most enlightened in all the earth), and the rest takes care of itself.

d4g

70

Wife fully awake.

by cappytan in

i learned this past week that my wife is now awake.

i just shared the pbs newshour segment with her with no comment other than something along the lines of, "jw story on pbs.".

she is furious at the arrogance of these men.. thats what happens when you get a momma angry!.

done4good

Great news, Cappytan!

91

ABC's report on child abuse

by Joyzabel in

nice job!

done4good

Sir82-
JW Talk appears to be pretty somber on this:
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/19847-abc-news-nightline-report-3122015/
Not nearly so much blaming the victim as I would have expected, although, of course, there is absolutely 0 sympathy expressed for her, either.

I dunno. That thread seems to go back and forth, from compassion and sensible discussion, to some brain dead drone spouting the company line, to the sensible and compassionate falling back into cult speak after the brain dead drones make their comments. In the end it pissed me off for sure. Not sure why I would have bothered to read a JW discussion on this subject. These people are incredibly dehumanized.

d4g

17

Jehovahs Witness Shunning & the Crusades

by freemindfade in

while discussing being mistreated by my own jw family last night with my wife, i wanted to try to make her think critically about what shunning really is, and at its root what how beneficial it is.

earlier in the day i sent her non-apostate scholarly article on religious shunning being tantamount to psychological torture.

and most witnesses don't think into much about why they do things, its more of a "this is the way we do it, don't over think it" process.

done4good

Good OP

Religion and its effects are very insidious to a person. Otherwise normal, good people will do very hurtful things because of it, to maintain their belief system when that system is threatened. This is the root of where cognitive dissonance comes in within this context, and religions thrive because of it. The WT just happens to be one of the bigger religious offenders today, mostly because socially it has evolved very little since the 19th century. The RC church, and others have had much more time to evolve to a more docile version of themselves. Shunning was considered perfectly normal in 19th century America. It is not today. The atrocities committed during the Inquisition and Crusades were even more atrocious, but unfortunately were also considered "normal" during their period.

d4g

6

The Walking Dead cocktail party reminds me of... me

by undercover in

jw
friends

as fans of the walking dead know, our heros have found sanctuary (or have they) at alexandria, a seemingly normal safe zone from the walkers/rotters/etc.

this past episode had rick's 'family' invited to a 'welcome to the community' cocktail party, hosted by deanna, the leader of the community.. having entered alexandria, we're starting to see the different levels of ptsd in our little group.

rick, carol, and daryl trust no one.

done4good

neverendingjourney-

I'll never forget one of my first jobs in the professional world when I was 22 years old. A pair of female co-workers who were 7-10 years older than me graciously invited me to a baseball game with them. One was married; the other had a boyfriend. They caught me off guard in the morning and I said yes.
Of course, a man could not be alone with women or else an orgy would surely break out. I spent the rest of the day panicking trying to come up with a good excuse to back out. I made up some stupid story and told them I couldn't go after all. They rarely asked me to do anything ever again.

Been that guy...grew out of it rather quickly though, even as a JW

41

What is the basis for authority for the governing body?

by Half banana in

a word to jehovahs witnesses: what is the basis for the authority the seven members of the governing body can claim in controlling the lives of eight million followers?

the organisation they represent has never got one useful piece of information correct in one hundred and thirty five years... so why should they be believed?.

done4good

EndOfMysteries:

Knorr and friend eventually made comments about a GB, and so they had to form one since they talked about it.

Not exactly. The WT had a governing body like most any other corporation, its board of directors. This was not a doctrinally oriented group, but rather one that was responsible for WT business. This group had a fall out with Knorr/Franz circa 1971, (presumably over Franz's 1975 nonsense), and used their executive power to create a group that took ecclesiastical power away from the presidency later that same year. Of course, so there did not appear to be any mutiny, Knorr and Franz were "absorbed" into this group, (however, they did not go willingly). The "Governing Body" came into existence at this time, although did not come into full power then.

It was no coincidence that this group did come into full power January 1, 1976. This action was an obvious symbolic middle finger to Knorr/Franz. (Is that a symbol of a symbol?? )

d4g