Only when either performing some non-JW productive activity, (such as something career oriented or educational), or while in escapist mode. The less they do of the former, the more they seem to do of the latter.
done4good
JoinedPosts by done4good
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44
Are Jehovah's Witnesses Happy?
by minimus ini know of the local congregation's issues, per an elder i know quite well.
he has said that nearly everyone in the congregation is suffering emotionally and mentally.
he said he has never seen so many witnesses with so many problems.
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45
Why do we get TTATT and others don't?
by quest81 ini have thought about how ttatt came full circle for me.
how the connecting the dots was simple and just made sense,.
how silos of information are literally at our fingertips today.. why is it that the ones we love cannot get ttatt?.
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done4good
Oubliette - There are a large number of manipulative techniques which do not require disconfirming evidence and a corresponding "doubling down" on the part of the person being manipulated.
I agree with this. There certainly are other important manipulation factors involved.
What I am mostly referring to is the "glue" that makes one's belief rather impervious to contrary evidence. In my own experience, (and from what I have seen from many on this board as well), I saw things that were not "right" years before I left. Things that I know now, would have been obvious to me had I not already had the mental investment in the belief system. Cognitions are very powerful, especially for thinking type people. Thinking types have a low tolerance for dissonance in this area, (Feeling types may rationalize more easily). So one ends up faced with a choice, either make the painful change of accepting that one's belief system is wrong, or simply push the disconfirming evidence away. Since this happens primarily subconsciously, that latter is almost a given.
This is a subtle, yet considerable factor as to why otherwise intelligent people cannot see something obvious, such as TTATT. Fear is a big factor, however the fear we are discussing in this context is mostly existential in nature. One is mostly fearful of losing their understanding of the way the world works, even though they almost certainly do not recognize it as such.
d4g
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45
Why do we get TTATT and others don't?
by quest81 ini have thought about how ttatt came full circle for me.
how the connecting the dots was simple and just made sense,.
how silos of information are literally at our fingertips today.. why is it that the ones we love cannot get ttatt?.
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done4good
Yes, they are two different things.
However, you cannot understand how mind control works without understanding how an individual responds to such manipulation. I know some here may disagree, (they may like to "believe" that there some book on mind control people study to learn how to do it or something), however that is not how mind control works.
Mind control is largely a product of social evolution gone wrong. Tactics are tried, the ones that work, stick, and are replicated over and over. The reason why these tactics work, is due to how the human brain deals with dissonance. If someone is taught there will be consequences for not "believing" in some manner, (such as shunning, loss of family, friends, death, etc.), and they are also provided with some positive reasons for belief, (paradise earth, seeing dead loved ones again, etc.), they have strong motivation for believing. Evidence to the contrary will prove very uncomfortable to them, and actually give them stronger resolve to believe, since now they also have a strong desire to overcome the mental discomfort.This is where CD comes into play, and plays a significant role in the replication of this particularly nasty social meme.
When this is replicated 8 million times over 140 years, there is a very powerful social meme at work, in aggregate.
d4g
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45
Why do we get TTATT and others don't?
by quest81 ini have thought about how ttatt came full circle for me.
how the connecting the dots was simple and just made sense,.
how silos of information are literally at our fingertips today.. why is it that the ones we love cannot get ttatt?.
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done4good
Cognitive dissonance. If you understand how this works, (thoroughly), you understand:
1. What "mind control" really is, (or more importantly, why it happens).
2. Why the GB can make things up and still be "true believers".
3. Why even very intelligent JWs cannot "see" what we see.
4. Why you once believed.
d4g
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31
Where is it said , not to independently do deep study of scripture
by william draper ini do believe it is written somewhere in jw literature .
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done4good
"Jehovah's people are the thinkingest people on the planet"
Not to split hairs on this point, however that statement is clearly a platitude directed toward the R&F, to make them "feel good" about themselves and the organization. If he said the same about the GB itself, it would indeed be the height of arrogance and narcissism.
Just making sure we are accurate here. This is the type of thing we get called on as "twisting" what the organization says.
d4g
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Where is it said , not to independently do deep study of scripture
by william draper ini do believe it is written somewhere in jw literature .
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done4good
Stuckinarut2- As the famous ToMo3 once said: "the GB are the most thinkingest people on the planet"
Did TM3 actually say that?
d4g
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76
Active posters: What education have you had, what degrees do you possess?
by EndofMysteries infrom so many posts and conversations on here, you'd think over 1/2 the posters here possess doctorates in theology, physics, biology, etc.
i'm curious aside from the books and research people have done here, what degrees they have.
to start, i just got an aa and going straight through full time to an mba.
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done4good
Bachelor of Science - Telecommunications Management, 1994 (Was a very fortunate dub to have friends that were liberal enough to assist and push me to get this education, many friends from the time no so fortunate).
M.Eng (Master of Engineering) - Networked Information Systems, 2015
Plan to work on PhD in electrical engineering/computer science next year.
d4g
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Ex-Christians being angry
by Jonathan Drake ini know i'm angry.
i was curious if others are too.
i feel completely justified in my anger as well.
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done4good
Angry, no...more like righteously indignant towards.
d4g
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How do you feel about religion as a whole?
by FatherFirst init just seems to me religion in general primarily makes truly bad people worse, not genuinly good people better; and in many cases has even made good people do bad things in the name of their religion.
just curious, a personal poll if you will.
what are you guys' current views on religion as a whole?
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done4good
JeffT- I've pointed out what the churches have been doing for the homeless (among other things, but the homeless camps are a good example). You have countered that people don't need a religion to get together and accomplish good things. I agree they shouldn't need it. The trouble is, at least around here, they don't seem to actually DO something. There is lots and lots of talk, the problem gets studied from all angles and everybody agrees that we should give the homeless a home - in somebody else's neighborhood. The thing the churches do best is convince the faithful that some degree of personal sacrifice and/or inconvenience is necessary to do good.
I agree that on a localized, practical level, religion may very well serve to enable some people to do good works that may otherwise be difficult to organize. They key word is difficult, and not impossible.
Many things work well on a local level, (as the saying goes, think globally act locally), however realistically not all things scale well, and extrapolate linearly. On a large scale, (or the "whole", as the OP brings out), more harm is done than good by religion. One doesn't need look too far to back this up empirically.
d4g
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67
How do you feel about religion as a whole?
by FatherFirst init just seems to me religion in general primarily makes truly bad people worse, not genuinly good people better; and in many cases has even made good people do bad things in the name of their religion.
just curious, a personal poll if you will.
what are you guys' current views on religion as a whole?
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done4good
Religion has served its purpose for humans. At this point in human historical development, it works against progress, and probably for the most part has, since the beginning of the Age of Reason. I really am hard pressed to think of anything good for society that is not already done secularly, that religion currently provides. I am sorry, but the argument that "my church feeds the poor", is a weak one in modern society. The most effective programs are largely secular in nature.
What religion does provide society that secularism does not by its nature is: bigotry, hatred, war, ignorance, etc.
I have no need for it.
d4g