Posts by done4good

37

Watershed moment???

by sparrowdown in

will this rc turn out to be the beginnings of a watershed time in wbts history?.

do you have any thoughts regarding this?.

done4good

VIdiot - It certainly feels like a game-changer.

What I will add, is what is very different about how the RC is going about this trial, (as opposed to the civil hearings such as the Conti case), is that the RC is really making an effort to understand both the psychology and sociology involved withing the organization, and its effects on its members, and nailing it. This is perhaps the first time that has taken place. If that trend continues, the domino effect can take place perhaps much faster than anyone expects. First Australia, then the UK, then Canada, (since all are Commonwealth nations). The US would certainly feel that pressure, so this could cause things to change quickly.

It is difficult to time social evolution, but it happens for sure.

d4g

18

Well written, scathing article that summarises first 3 days of RC hearing.

by Pants of Righteousness in

there's been quite a number newspaper articles quoted over the past week, but i would recommend this as a good summary of the first three days of the royal commission hearing in australia - complete with some scathing commentary.. apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but have not seen this posted previously.. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/law-crime/2015/08/01/royal-commission-examines-jehovah-witnesses-cover/14383512002194.

just one thing that is not quite right is that the article refers to joe bello as a narrogin elder.

the assualts took place while the victim was part of the narrogin congregation.

done4good

Well written, damning, and any intellectually honest JW could read that and know it is the truth, if not blinded by the cognitive dissonance it will cause.

We need a well summarized, scathing article like that here in the US, from a credible source like the NYT. That will cause more than a few seeds to be planted.

d4g

37

Watershed moment???

by sparrowdown in

will this rc turn out to be the beginnings of a watershed time in wbts history?.

do you have any thoughts regarding this?.

done4good

Short term - Not much.

Long term - You bet.

d4g

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

done4good

As a side point, are there reasons why the cases of unreported abuse you know about remain unreported? Are you or others you know in a position to support the victims in making a report now?

I would love to be able to report these cases. The trouble is I have no specific information as to who the victims themselves were, and in all but one instance, don't know who the alleged perp was, (that one I know of I was warned about when I started attending that hall in the late '90s, but never was any specific information given about the "who to" or "when" any of his abuse took place). This rest are all based on information I heard from elders and others that "there are known pedophiles in our cong", and they don't say "who". The folks are trusted sources to me, (so I know what they are saying is credible), but that is not going to hold in court of law. This is also over the course of time I was "in" and I am long since out, (10 years). As I stated before, there are likely others here much closer to the actual cases themselves that could speak to specific cases with enough detail to incriminate someone. I unfortunately do not have this.

To your point, there is a significant difference between trying to build a legal, (criminal or civil), case against the WT with respect to its manipulative practices regarding social stigmatization of those who are victimized, and what is the much more elusive, (however salient), issue of how the organization and its complex social structure prevent justice from being carried out for the sake of those victims and their families, (especially in the USA where religious freedom issues appear to trump all). This is the crux of the problem and why it is so difficult to change the way these cases are handled in the congregations of JWs.

d4g

11

Seduction, psychosis and radicalisation

by Half banana in

the jw delusion is a psychosis i.e.

the holding on to a belief irrespective of sound evidence to the contrary.

it has everything to do with the indulgent pleasure of embracing an all encompassing idea which promises to resolve every human frailty and inconvenience.

done4good

Xanthippe - Only when our emotional security has been seriously disturbed. When someone suffers at the hands of elders who don't give a damn or becomes ill through slaving away pioneering etc then the comfort zone starts to crumble and we start to look outside of it for explanations.

That is precisely it. Stable and intelligent folks generally don't make good converts to JW, however already stable and intelligent JWs also don't see the need to leave. They have long since learned to rationalize what they perceive as logical inconsistencies, and injustices, so they do not see the need to investigate further. It takes something to take them out of that comfort zone to see the light.

d4g

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

done4good

I am not exactly sure what defines "documented" in this context, (JCs and kangaroo court type hearings by their nature have little in the way of paper trail), but I am sure many who have experienced this situation, (many are on this board), could speak to it.

In my own experience, I know of at least 5 individuals from 3 congregations where their alleged crimes for child molestation were never investigated by police, and the alleged criminals are free roaming in the congregations. This simply would not happen if the parents felt free to speak about the matter to the authorities. The reality is the parents are fearful that they will lose their social environment if they do so. That type of unnatural fear is paralyzing, and is created, fostered and sanctioned by that environment itself.

This is purely anecdotal, however the situation is no different from one where a very good friend of mine was removed from his position as elder, (and as a consequence treated as a pariah in the congregation and forced out of it by default), for suing a fellow "sister" for literally fraudulently taking his life savings from him, (over $1M). This "sister" was found criminally guilty in federal court and is serving 7 years in federal prison, yet she was never JC'd and remains in good standing. This friend of mine is now 60+, broke, and having to work 3 jobs just to keep up expenses. He will never have a retirement. He was a very successful person prior to this, and pretty much my idol as a young person.

Such is the pattern of the kangaroo court known as "Theocratic Justice".

d4g

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

done4good

NG - Because the question is about a second party (elders) reporting. But regardless of whether it is mandatory or not, the victim/parents are free to report it whenever they want. Obviously.

Obviously, you are either the most intellectually dishonest person I have come into contact with in some time, or the most naive, I am really not sure which. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it is the latter, so I will enlighten you a bit...

IF the parents either go to the police first, or go after the elders have determined no two witnesses to the crime exist to allow for a JC, the parents will be DF for either "causing divisions", "slander", or some other such catch-all type infringement. If not actually DF, the parents will be put through hell by the elder body, and essentially forced out of the congregation to save face. This is a regular occurrence in almost every congregation, and is the entire root of the problem. The policies the organization holds to are designed to protect the organization at all costs, (human or otherwise). The policies are neither moral nor do they ultimately exist for the benefit of the congregation members. When it comes to the organization's interests vs. that of the well being of its human members, the organization wins every time. Believe it.

Yes, the 7 men leading this mess in Brooklyn are both stupid and evil.

d4g

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

done4good

In any case, there is nothing stopping elders reporting to the Legal Department and the police simultaneously if reporting is mandatory.

You keep dodging the real issue. Why does reporting need to be "mandatory" for it to be done in the first place? If the JW system and bible are truly morally superior, this reporting in the interest of children's protection should be a given. Why does the WT only comply when required? Answer that and stop evading the real issue.

d4g

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

done4good

I highly doubt that any rules that come about from this investigation will conflict with Bible principles.

So why were those rules that won't conflict with "Bible principles" not applied by WT previously? Do the secular authorities really do a better job at applying those principles, or are you tacitly admitting the bible really has nothing to do with morality at all? Which is it?

d4g

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

done4good

Yes they do however they could find a strategy that would keep this in play but allow them to be seen to improving the policy. If they (a) always report and (b) delay judicial action until the authorities have investigated then they put the ball in the secular court and can then act in response to whatever the authorities do.
I really do think the GB have underestimated the impact of this and I am sure they are rapidly working out if they need to do something more proactive than simply sit put and do nothing whilst it blows over.

It sounds good on paper, however they will never do it. Why? Because it would mean that the issue gets exposed within the congs, and we all know they cannot have that. While I would welcome that change, (it would benefit victims and future potential victims), the WT will go down stubbornly kicking and fighting this one. They are proving just how mind-boggingly stupid that they are. This is no time for them to be justifying why they handle things the way they have, but yet, that is precisely what they are doing.

True believers are very dangerous people. Fact and reason simply does not prevail with them.

d4g