Posts by done4good

16

Is Watchtower beginning to buckle

by Truthexplorer in

is wt beginning to buckle under the weight of everything that is happening?

heavy criticism from the media and the plethora of websites and youtube videos popping up; and now the obvious issues with finances clearly evident.

the pressure for change must be immense and therefore necessary!

done4good

It is more about long-term sustainability than anything else, but...

1. Negative legal pressure and bad PR is hurting them.

2. Money is a problem. The 25 year old "donation" arrangement is very long in the tooth, and beginning to show real signs of stress. JWs are not big donators to begin with, (most don't have much money to give), and those that do have the means are smarter than to give away money they see has no purposeful use.

3. The are rapidly becoming irrelevant in a better informed society.

They will be around for a while, but I am, (almost), convinced a real corner has been turned. The WTS does not like to appear to capitulate easily, and it is clearly appearing to be very desperate.

d4g

12

Sad Reality...

by JW_Rogue in

...is that most jws don't know anything about the financial news that is happening right now.

sure it has trickled down to the elders and those who volunteer for construction but the average jw has no idea.

no one in my hall has said a thing about it.

done4good

These types of things cause significant cognitive dissonance. This is expected behavior.

Give it time to process, and as cognac mentions above, the effects to be experienced.

d4g

48

America Mass Shooting: 10/1/2015

by adjusted knowledge in

jw
friends

since this will be the norm in america, perhaps we should put a date on each of these topics.

can't really put school mass shooting because too many to choose from.

done4good

As long as the anti-science, anti-math crowd control the conversation with respect to gun control with platitudes about "liberty", "freedom", etc., it will be difficult to get the message through that the gun violence we see in the USA is a product of probability. Too many are moved by such platitudes as opposed to logical discourse.

Too many guns, and now an extreme right wing that breeds nutcases. This is fertile ground for what we are seeing.

I suppose that the only silver lining in this is that most sane folks, (even traditionally conservative types), are beginning to wake up and realize something has to change drastically.

d4g

12

truth

by Sabin in

jw
friends

i`ve been thinking, a thread was put up about a month ago asking the question " why me?

basically why some of us find out ttatt while others are so blinded, good, sincere people that we love.

well after some consideration i have come to the conclusion that 1) some are in the truth 2) others want truth.

done4good

Vidiot - I grew up valuing facts, evidence, and logic.
The older I got, the more WT ideology seemed in conflict with those things...

Ditto.

I would add that a good reality slap helps though. Many intelligent people in the organization also value these things, however have it a bit too easy, so prefer to stay in their comfort zone, even if it means compromising their otherwise logical nature. A life changing event forces one out this comfort zone automatically, and often becomes the moment when the dissonance is truly resolved.

d4g

45

No the WT Borg is not closing! That's Wild Dreaming!

by DwainBowman in

no the wt borg is not closing!

that's wild dreaming!

they have been changing directions for a while now, and for whatever reasons, what is happening now is a part of that change!

done4good

No, it is not closing, not will it likely anytime soon. However based on very broad based anecdotal evidence, they are clearly having problems, and trying desperately to manage them. Organizations don't stop building and expanding because everything is just fine, especially ones that blindly pride themselves on that growth.

I believe the problems started in earnest a few years ago, (JW.org itself was a turn on a dime out of desperation). Several rather drastic measures have been attempted to reign in costs, and keep revenue flowing. The organization also has been trying to change its image, (of course without any true social reforms). These tactics are likely not working as planned, (they are tactical, read reactionary, not strategic), and the panic button has been pressed. They don't want to do this. There is nothing in it for them other than savings in operating and capital spend. That does not make "The one and only True Religion" look so good, does it?

What is not understood clearly is what broke all of a sudden and why.

d4g

22

are there really 8 million jw's?

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

last circuit assembly there was 700+ present and 1 baptized.. recently there was a foreign language assemble of over 500 and 1 baptized.. in the last 5-10 years i haven't been to one assembly where there has been more than a handful baptized.

at the memorial all i see are the same old faces that have been coming since the flood.. the hall complex i attend has 6 congregation and several groups-there is negative growth.

when you factor in the demographically aging folk and the many who have already passed away, i don't know where they get the 8 million.. i know that most of the growth is from the developing countries, but still i think they are fudging their numbers.

done4good

To add...

Also consider that many/most JWs have children these days. This was not the case before the mid-1990s. The 1-2% growth that is reported is roughly consistent with population growth. No converts here.

Most converts are in underdeveloped countries, (at least where things such as sharia law do not exist), or those with severe social issues.

Any increase in numbers in developed countries is based on the fudging above, children being born and "publishing", and immigrant migration.

d4g

22

are there really 8 million jw's?

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

last circuit assembly there was 700+ present and 1 baptized.. recently there was a foreign language assemble of over 500 and 1 baptized.. in the last 5-10 years i haven't been to one assembly where there has been more than a handful baptized.

at the memorial all i see are the same old faces that have been coming since the flood.. the hall complex i attend has 6 congregation and several groups-there is negative growth.

when you factor in the demographically aging folk and the many who have already passed away, i don't know where they get the 8 million.. i know that most of the growth is from the developing countries, but still i think they are fudging their numbers.

done4good

Since the membership accounting is based on turning in "time", there is lots of room for fudging. This is done from Joe/Jane publisher, all the way to the top.

First of all, consider that members are constantly coerced to actually turn in time. There is a negative social stigma associated with not doing so, in the form of being labeled "irregular", or "inactive". Nobody wants those labels, if they care about their status in the congregation. There is no telling how many individual members turn in time that have zero desire to do so.

Secondly, the organization is not transparent in how it performs the accounting to begin with. What is a "publisher" really? Must they be baptized to be counted? Do they count heads when convenient? There are so many things that can be "adjusted" behind the scenes, that numbers can be spun positive for some time just by changing what is being counted.

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.

d4g

119

Latest rumor - all WT construction "suspended", except for Warwick

by sir82 in

jw
friends

heard 4th-hand, but from a full-on believer, so not likely to be an "apostate lie":.

apparently, at bethel's morning worship this morning, it was announced that all worldwide wts construction is "suspended" for an indefinite time, except for the new world headquarters at warwick.. also, the "relocation" of remote translating teams is also suspended.. finally, there will be a "worldwide" reduction in bethel personnel.. all this came to me in a non-english language, and,as noted, 4th-hand.

so it is possible something may have been lost in translation and/or in the multiple steps between bethel morning worship & me.. but if true, it would be quite stunning.

done4good

SBF:

Good to see you again!

d4g

15

All these changes in the last five years are mindblowing

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i can't begin to count all the changes that have happened in the last five years.. i just read they're getting rid of the theocratic ministry school from cedar's blog.. i remember when they released the new theo school book back in 2001. how times have changed.. it's almost scary in a way what's happening.

there's barely any time to adapt to one change before another change comes along.. there's been more changes in the last five years than the previous 100 years.. i feel like there's some grand puppet master pulling his string.. what if the governing body are not really in charge but just give the impression they're in charge.

could there be someone else behind the scenes?.

done4good

The GB are true believers in something that is not based in fact and reason.

WT is an authoritarian organization.

Authoritarian organizations are reactionary.

Authoritarian organizations are authoritarian because their leaders are true believers, and as a result live by ideology, not fact and reason.

When people don't live in a world based in fact and reason, they make bad decisions, (eventually).

At a high level, that is what we are seeing the effects of.

d4g

29

How will many JW's react ?

by Phizzy in

i did not believe i would see the demise of the wt in my lifetime, and maybe i will not, they may be able to ride out their present problems.. but how do you think this will affect the average, loyal, believing jw ?.

usually most things just wash over them, if there is a slight niggle, they use their well-worn way of explaining things to themselves as in "the end is near" or "jehovah knows best" etc etc.

but the huge sea-change in corporate policy that we see unfolding, all construction work stopped, except warwick and maybe their biggest project, chelmsford u.k. huge bethel layoffs, and the lifestyle of the remaining staff reduced to virtual slavery, more bethel closures, spiritual food reduced for the public as well as the r&f, and all of this being the opposite of what they have claimed was evidence of jehovah's blessing ???.

done4good

I seriously doubt they will announce such set back to all JWs.

Maybe not. However, how long could something like that be hidden???

d4g