from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.
beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.
i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .
JeffT- When i converted I trashed a lot of really classic Rock vinyl on the advice of a JW roommate. Got rid of Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Doors, and King Crimson. I've replaced most of it on CD now, but the King Crimson is hard to find.
Two weekends ago I picked up a new vinyl copy on 200 gram vinyl, (yes, I still play LPs by choice), of King Crimson's In the Wake of Poseidon. Great record.
d4g
from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.
beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.
i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .
My music taste was well established by the time I was baptized at 15. Same stuff you were/are into, Doors, Hendrix, Zep, Beatles, Who, Sabbath, etc. I remember early on, a rather cool slightly older sister, who used to drive me to meetings occasionally before I drove, (she had same music taste as I did), told me some nonsense about demonic messages in playing Stairway backwards. She was indeed cool enough to say, "Do what you want with that information", but stupid, guilty me decided to throw all of my Led Zep out. Idiot...That was in 1988, (incidentally, that same year, there was an MS in our hall that was a VP at Atlantic Records at the time, and went to Atlantic's 40th Anniversary show, where a reunited Zep actually played. His wife was a BIG Led Zep fan...). I bought it all back in the early 90s. I never let that happen again.
I learned early on to keep my music to myself, until I got to know people. Over the years, I learned that many JWs listened to the same stuff I did.
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
Doubtfully Yours - Believe me, there are plenty that know the facts but, for whatever reason, mainly fear of losing all social contacts and along with that one's sanity, we have just decided to go along with playing the WTBTS game.
Oh, we know.... We definitely know.😕
DY
DY, this is not what I am referring to. I understand many have to play along for the sake of family and other contacts. Those folks are aware, and mentally awake. This is about those that are not awake, despite the intelligence to know better.
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
He communicated with God, he saw angels...
No, those were just some damn good 'shrooms...
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
Fisherman - MW describes faith, it does not challenge the basis, you do.. Your post assumes that all faiths are based on snake oil. But faith simply means the belief and trust and hope in medicine that does work. And the eason you have faith in it is because you know for a fact that it does.
Bullshit. MW is quite clear what faith is. Did you actually read it? Faith in no way is based on fact. This is self-evident from the definition. Faith is a choice to accept something without evidence. Period. Stop your double-talk.
Fisherman - ...because faith can only be based upon proof.
See my point above about the definition of the word.
Don't troll my thread with this crap. I am not debating dictionary word definitions here. Are you the WTS? Words have accepted definitions, and your choosing to invent your own definition, because the actual definition is inconvenient for you, in no way validates your point. In fact, it is intellectually dishonest. If you have something constructive to offer, (even a valid counter point), please do so, but debating accepted definitions is not such.
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
Fisherman - Faith is logic based on solid fact, like taking medicine that works.
Not according to Merriam-Webster.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith
Fisherman - Facts do not trump other facts and that is the sophistry of your argument assuming that faith is based on belief (not a talking horse) and if the basis for faith can be invalidate with any new facts whatsoever.
???
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
The Rebel - done4good " the part of the two sentences lost in the ellipsis is key"
The Rebel, sorry about that, and I apologise if I inadvertently in my post took your comment out of context.
The Rebel.
No offense taken. I just wanted to point out the specific idea I was attempting to convey.
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
DJS - I methodically removed each stone, examined it - and when I found it wanting - cast it away. Then I dug up the foundation and threw that away. No emotion. No looking back. And the best thing I have ever accomplished.
This is a process, and takes time. It took about 5 years for me, after leaving the JWs.
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
Cofty - It's understandable. I recall when I had hospital tests a few years ago, when I came round from the anaesthetic I was met by a specialist nurse with a bunch of leaflets of the, "So now you're F***ed Here are 10 Things You Need to Know" variety.
Logic says I should have read them avidly and asked lots of questions. What I actually did was to politely decline them and tell her if she gave me a card I would be in touch when I was ready to talk. She was wise enough to agree.
Sometimes temporary denial has it's place.
Agreed, and this is a key reason we need to be aware of why trying to "force" facts on someone can be potentially dangerous. A person needs to be ready to accept them.
d4g
i posted this on another thread, and decided it deserves its own...thoughts?.
an unfortunate artifact of evolution is that belief can, and often does trump fact.
survival is at the core of what belief is about.
The Rebel - Done4good " humans have developed a concience and the ability to reason.....,our most primal instinct is to survive first"
The Rebel:- I believe humans like animals don't rationalise, they instinctively feel. Both animals and humans " ethical and moral conscience " even from the beginning of creation has been to sacrifice life for a sibling.
The part of the two sentences lost to the ellipsis is key. Our most primal instincts, (which have existed in the animal kingdom for hundreds of millions of years), have allowed species, (including humans), to exist a very long time. These instincts are much more powerful, than the relatively recently evolved conscious awareness that humans are capable of using.This is why that conscious awareness does not play a dominant role in situations where a human perceives something to be threatening, (such as something that might bring their belief system into serious question).
d4g
