Posts by ElderBarry

39

I NEED ADVICE ON WHAT TO RECOMMEND

by ElderBarry in

hi.

one of the girls i work with, wenda, is studying with the dubs!

ElderBarry

Hi Scout, In read that book! Iwas excellent! I read it when I was first deprogramming myself, before I started to see a therapist. I think though she needs someting more JW specific.

Dobbie! Okay, I think COC it is! You're the third or fourth person to recommend it. I read it too, but for some reason I don't remember it well.

Hi Stealth. Your icon is cute and funny. Well, you know, I've seen that book for sale, I think. I appreciate the offer, but I think the author would prolly not like it to be shared that way. He might not care, but I don't know that. Do unto others and all that. Thank you for the offer!

Slimboyfat. Yeah Walt Martin was exposed as a fraud when he finally died! He had no legitimate degrees and even cited his high school as a source of one of his degrees! I didn't like his stuff. Obnoxious. Very strident and triumphal. His disciples, the Passantinos, are much the same, although Gretchen is a widow now, which is very sad. So far the weight of consensus is with COC. I think Wenda might well go for it, especially since it's from a former GB beebee.

FE203girl, yeah but I can't think of any other way besides an actual confrontationw ith whomever she is studying with. What she is getting out of this is a false sense of comfort and hope in these crazy times with a nut in the white house bringing us closer and closer to nuclear war! All this end of the world junk is a "prophecy" that is coming true because people BELIEVE it and so unconsciously they act in ways that will bring it about. Spooky and crazy.

Moonmanchu. Another recommend for COC! Okay, COC it is! Thanks! By firt book do you mean you're the author? Raymond Franz? I sos, how very lovely and exceptional to "meet" you! Thanks for your first book. It seems to be the consensus.

Hi Lisa Vegas! I checked out the link and this looks like a winner too. I will probably end up buying this one for myself and if COC doesn't work on Wenda maybe Cocoon will. You know, the only name I meet mnore than Lisa is Kathy.

Thanks everyone! Lisa.

50

THE GOLLUM SYNDROME; Do YOU Suffer From it?

by ElderBarry in

when i left the rub a dub dubs, i was bitter, angry, disillusioned, and fearful of stepping out in faith again.

i didnt want to get burned.

i could have stayed that way.

ElderBarry

This isnt a plea for the LDS Church, but a plea for everyone to let go of "precious" and find their way back to God, to Love, whatever Path that winds up being. Thats all. Whether they want to call "God" the Tao or some other word. I thought I was really clear this isn't about the LDS Church, but about the hurt that we cherish after the JW experience, our "precious."

Hi JW Daughter and Crumpet. Thanks for understanding. Neither of you seems in the least Gollumish. Sheesh that reads stupid. Gollumish. Sounds like maybe its Sumerian. I hoped people would just read the post and start to think and maybe open up a bit more to God, however they conceive God. I thought, fo a while, there must not be a God since the JWs are so terrible.

Kid-A, get a grip on reality! I'd chase you down and kiss you if I was there. I don't post to advertise the LDS Church and if you had been wearing your thinking cap (my dad used to say that to me, yes I HATED it) as you read my posts you'd know that. I've stated over and over I don't literally believe the LDS Church. What my posts have been about it to try to encourage people to let go of the bitterness, fear, anger, and disillusionment and let God back in. Just as I posted before, I don't care if you call God the Tao, the Universe, Brahman, Nirvana, or Popsicle, just let that LOVE back in and let it give you hope and meaning again. I am the last one to conform, K-A. Again, if you had been wearing your thinking cap when you read my posts you'd klnow that I think Mormonism, and all religion, is mythology. How is that conformity? God loves you Kid-A. I can tell you that once you find your Spiritual Home it will seem all the more glorious for having been Trapped In The Tower.

jgnat, of course someone can criticize the LDS Church. I've already come across a number of such posts searching this site. So what? Criticize away. I'll be there like ug on ugly if it's not accurate. I simply don't care for diversionary tactics. They're silly and dishonest. I thought the mouse guy was being diversionary.

Full of doubt now, good for you! Your icon feels very free too. Why the LDS Church? I dont know if you've read my profile or any of my other posts. I chose the LDS Church because I was looking for one thing and one thing only: God's love. I don't care about doctrines. I care about fruit. I'm not a solitary person but very social. So I chose a group that was very alive, took good care of each other, took good care of those not part of the group, a group that showed love in their actions not just words. I tried pentecostals and baptists and methodist and lutherans and catholic and a bunch of others. I found my home in the LDS Church.

Scully, my feelings were hurt and I got a little emotional. I'm over it. Are you? God loves you Scully, because God IS love. The love you feel for your children, your siblings, your extended family, your friends, your neighbors, co-workers, your country, thats God. God is love. No that "God is a loving Being." John didn't say that. He said "God is love." Ther ground of being is Love. Now that takes faith, faith in ones own subjective experience of love.

FUNKYDEREK! YES THEY ALL SUCK! Even the LDS Church for a LOT of people! That's why everyone should find their own path to and in God. To divine Love. I have a sneaking suspicion you already have by the playful spirit of your post! I feel that same freedom, but I know that a LOT of people woulnt feel it in any organized religion.

Yours in LIFE,
Lisa

50

THE GOLLUM SYNDROME; Do YOU Suffer From it?

by ElderBarry in

when i left the rub a dub dubs, i was bitter, angry, disillusioned, and fearful of stepping out in faith again.

i didnt want to get burned.

i could have stayed that way.

ElderBarry

Dear Ringo5: Your judgmental nastiness is exactly what I'm talking about. You have the Gollum Syndrome but can't even see it. So many here seem to, judging by their posts. I don't show my love to God by beaming good vibes God's way. How silly. I show God's love in practical ways by doing practical things for real people. I care for a number of homeless people as well as other indigents around the country through my Church. I'm personally involved in a number of such activities. Ringo, what ways do YOU show this love of yours? Are you suddenly going to "go Bible" on me and refuse to sound your own trumpet? You threw down the gauntlet little mouse.

You don't know me, haven't read my posts in which I introduce myself (or even my very short profile that reveals much), or even discuss this intelligently with me. You just post your nasty Gollum post. Yes, I have feelings Ringo, and you hurt them. Your post revealed much. You don't have to continue to be so nasty and Gollum-like. God loves you. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by saying I love you, but I do desire the very best for you.

I'm a real person Ringo5. -Lisa (Puh-LEEZE read my prpfile before you start spouting any more negative rants and rehetoric.You will make yourslef appear much smarter that way by not sticking your foot in your mouth)

36

Do u believe much of the JW teachings but not Gods Representative on earth?

by breeze in

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i wonder how many are still drawn to the beliefs but just don't believe the wtbts is jehovah's representative on earth and the only hope for mankind?.

of course we know some are not correct like 607 bc and 1914 and 1975 etc.. breeze

ElderBarry

Hi Breeze! You're crystal clear to me! I am attracted to their really cogent arguments against Hellifre and damnation. That's it. The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do not believe or teach such ugly foulness. -Lisa

2

Victory

by Twitch in

victory (author unknown)

when you are content with any food, any raiment, any climate, any solitude, any interruption - that is victory

when you can bear with any discord, any annoyance, any irregularity, any unpunctuality (of which you are not the cause) - that is victory

ElderBarry

Hi Twitch! I agree with all of these victories marevlous Victories, except the first one. I think it could be carried too far. We could be content with having cancer and never try to fix it.The rest are marvelous! The very last one gets a big heartfelt "amen!" from me! The blessings of God upon you always Twitch. -Lisa

50

THE GOLLUM SYNDROME; Do YOU Suffer From it?

by ElderBarry in

when i left the rub a dub dubs, i was bitter, angry, disillusioned, and fearful of stepping out in faith again.

i didnt want to get burned.

i could have stayed that way.

ElderBarry

When I left the Rub A Dub Dubs, I was bitter, angry, disillusioned, and fearful of stepping out in faith again. I didnt want to get burned. I could have stayed that way. My therapist pointed out that I was only harming myself by holding on to the bitterness, anger, fear, and disillusionment.. I was only robbing myself AND GIVING THE GB THE FINAL VICTORY IN MY LIFE by holding on to all the junk!

I decided I didn't want to lay dying when my time comes and realize that the GB had had the last laugh, that they'd managed to ruin my life and control me all the way to my grave! That they had managed to control me so thoroughly even after I left that I had never stepped out and let go of the crap they had inflicted on me. I realized I was holding on to all that negative crap, actually treasuring it and inwardly protecting it, JUST LIKE GOLLUM HOLDS ONTO THE RING! That ring came to him from an evil source and it ruined him and he desperately wanted to be free of it and its horrible effects on him. Yet he clung to "precious" even as it devoured him and ruined his mind and body.

I chose to let go of the Ring Of Power that the GB had inflicted on me. I wouldnt let them turn me into a Gollum. I wouldn't let them sour me on life or God or any of the things I held dear before getting involved in Dubbery. Don't you be a Gollum and let the GB have thr last laugh on you either.

There is a Transcendent Source that loves us, and is Love. We all have different ways of approaching "God" and integrating "God" into our lives. Let God love you again. Our experiences as Dubs were so similar, as is what they did to us, what they inflicted on us. Let go of it and embrace That which we call God. I don't care if you call it Nirvana or Tao or Brahman or The Universe. Don't be a Gollum and let the GB have a horse laugh at your expense. They're evil old bastards. Okay, that's all.

Yours in Life and Love of Life and God,
Lisa

24

the all knowing god?

by the dreamer dreaming in

dont know if this has been discussed or not...but.... it always bothered me when people claimed that god is all knowing... what exactly does that really mean or can mean?.

after all, according to all, there was some point when only god existed and so its pretty easy to be all knowing when there is nothing to know.. but why should we assume that a being who had no one teach him and nothing to learn from could be anything but insane?.

we should trust god, some have told me, because he made everything and therefore knows everything about what he made... sorry, but that does not follow at all.. my subconscious, apparently, seems to be able to manifest many dreams of very complex things which leaves me puzzled as to their workings not understanding them at all..... the bible shows god to be less than all knowing on many occasions, especially in genesis 18:20-21 where he is going to investigate a report that has come to him.... from where or who we are not told.... but it makes it clear he is desiring to find out if the report is accurate or not... .

ElderBarry

Dreamer, do you know me? How about instead of assuming things about me and making snide remarks that you just ask me? I don't bite, usually. I haven't forsaken a thing and if you had analysed the things I have said, you would have concluded: "It's extremely unlikely that Lisa will become a 'true believer' or a fanatic and go join a comet cult." All religions are mythology, that includes the LDS Church.

I am a prisoner of my five senses just as you are Dreamer. Have you considered that? Or do you think your experiences are "objective" ? I have a subjective experience of That which I call "God." I experience unconditional LOVE from this Being. Also a sense of transcendence, of being a part of something greater than myself in both space and time. I chose the LDS Church for a lot of reasons, but the chief reason is that I felt God more strongly from LDS people than at other churches.

When I left the Rub A Dub Dubs, I was bitter, angry, and disillusioned. I could have stayed that way. My therapist pointed out that I was only harming myself by holding on to the bitterness and anger. I was only robbing myself AND GIVING THE GB THE FINAL VICTORY IN MY LIFE by holding on to the disillusionment, anger, bitterness, and fear of being hurt again. I didn't want to lay dying when my time comes and realize that the GB had had the last laugh; they had managed to ruin my life and control me all the way to the grave! They had managed to control me so thoroughly even after I left the Dubs that I had never stepped out and loved and trusted again because the crap they had inflicted on me I had held onto and treasured just like GOLLUM HOLD ONTO THE RING! That ring came to him from an evil source and it ruined him and he desperately wants to be free. yet he clings to it as well.

Same thing Dreamer, same thing. I chose LIfe! I chose GOD! I chose LOVE! I chose FREEDOM to BE and BECOME! The LDS Church is life-affirming. There is no hellfire craziness is Mormonism. God is not a mercurial despot. They encourage everyone to find their talents and pursue them. The world is a basically good place and people are basically good. It works for me. Have I given up anything? Nope. I sure have gained a whole new perspective on life though. I am alive and GLAD to be alive! To be one of God's children!

God loves you too Dreamer. -Lisa

39

I NEED ADVICE ON WHAT TO RECOMMEND

by ElderBarry in

hi.

one of the girls i work with, wenda, is studying with the dubs!

ElderBarry

Hi Andre! Yeah I told her about this site but she blew it off. She almost wasn't going to read anything.she is so close to buying into the whole thing. Hi Captives. Thanks for the recommend. Yes I chose Elder Barry as my sn here because thats the name of the elder that brought me into the LDS Church. No, I'm not about to proselytize Wenda. Hi Black Pearl and Spectre! Thanks. I think I migth have read that one a long time ago. The author was a member of the GB, right? Yeah I must have read it.

39

I NEED ADVICE ON WHAT TO RECOMMEND

by ElderBarry in

hi.

one of the girls i work with, wenda, is studying with the dubs!

ElderBarry

Hi. One of the girls I work with, Wenda, is studying with the Dubs! I talked to her at about 1,000 words per second and finally got her to agree to read ONE book by a former Dub. Plus, she agreed not to tell whoever it is shes studying with about this decision. Relief. Okay, so I have one shot at this to get it right. What book should I recommend? I hope there's a consensus view. I know about a few, like 30 Years A Watchtower Slave, but thats just too old. So, let me know. If there is a consensus opinion thats the one I'll get for her. Thanks a bunch! -Lisa

20

Witnesses View - Council of Nicea (serious thread)

by Confucious in

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ok.... just trying to find a better understanding here.... no stupid posts like, "...because it's the governing body.

" - please.. ok.... how do the witness justify the bible and at the same time condem catholicism et all.... i mean, the books in the bible were picked by the council of nicea - which according the the witnesses - were part of the great appostasy and sanctioned by the same group of religious leaders they condemn..

ElderBarry

OOPS! Athanasius was the Catholic Bishop of Alexandria, so he was Byzantine Catholic, not Roman. -Lisa