the title speaks for itself.
lots of coverage of the pope's personal (!
about a month ago we all could read jochie's post regarding investigation of sexual abuse among jw's in the netherlands.
When asked, JR Brown cleared that up 15 years ago, stating the rule included other evidence instead of “a second witness”.
Because Elders will do what they read about what the organization says in the media, not what it states in the elders manual, right?😏
I am beginning to think you not only were never an elder, you have never really been associated with the organization as a member either.
Only someone who has no actual experience of the religion would be that clueless about it.
the title speaks for itself.
lots of coverage of the pope's personal (!
about a month ago we all could read jochie's post regarding investigation of sexual abuse among jw's in the netherlands.
Agreed, the woman had a duty to protect her children and should have been better informed, but I have found that some Jehovah's Witnesses tend to be a bit gullible and also put a lot of trust in fellow believers. It's not just JWs either, it's human nature to believe what we want to believe, to see what we want to see. The sad reality is that this woman went on to marry the pervert anyway. You can't fix stupid I guess. I often wonder about those children and how it turned out for them. At least my friend didn't have to feel guilty knowing she could have said something and didnt.
And yes, this is an unverified story. This is a discussion board, People come here to discuss their experiences, there is no way to know if any of them are true really, so people can believe the story or not, it doesn't hurt my feelings any. Frankly it's pretty mild compared to some stories I've read, so I don't get why it seems so unbelievable. I only used it to illustrate the disconnect between what the Watchtower says about protecting children and what actually happens in reality.
given the proliferation of websites, youtube channels, books and other forms of media attention focusing on the extreme policies, teachings and scandals of the watchtower bible and tract society; where does this now leave the governing body's credibility?.
They never had any credibility with anyone outside of the organization, so I doubt media attention has changed that any. I do think they have lost credibility with some in the organization, not because of media attention, but because they chose to start appearing in videos and looking like idiots, obsessing over tight pants and other silly things.
so... i am doing a crazy stat: how many pieces of paper has the wt ever published?.
i don't have the answer yet, but.... i do have the approximate answer for the awake!
and the watchtower magazines.... get ready... it's a whopping 1.1 trillion pages!.
Let's just say they have produced enough to line a lot of birdcages, which is about all they are really good for.
for almost 12 years now, i have been coming to this site on a regular basis and in the last 5, i “faded out”.
i never regretted this and never will.
unfortunately though, yesterday, i realized that, until i can publically tell all my old acquaintances why i have left, i will never be truly free.
You have to do what works for you, so good luck.
Doesn't mean you can't check in from time to time and let us know how you are doing though.
the title speaks for itself.
lots of coverage of the pope's personal (!
about a month ago we all could read jochie's post regarding investigation of sexual abuse among jw's in the netherlands.
Just before I posted the link, you were no doubt more than happy to make an equal comparison.
And you accuse me of speculation?
Secondly, elders don’t investigate abuse. All they are doing is attempting to corroborate an accusation (dealing with sin — the police deal crime).
What is attempting to corroborate if not an investigation? Spitting hairs.
Thirdly, you are lying. Where in print, or implication, is an attitude that abuse “doesn’t happen here”? Please prove that.
I well remember sitting in the kingdom reading the Kingdom ministry that said sexual abuse of children was very rare among jehovah's Witnesses, because they don't have Clergy or priests. I remember reading many times that Jehovah's Witnesses live in a "spiritual paradise". I was associated for thirty years, so I think I know what I am talking about and I don't appreciate being called a liar, please try to keep the discussion civil.
oruthly, you are ignorant of the two-witness rule (or playing ignorant). It’s an allegation, with corroborating evidence, including BUT NOT LIMITED TO, a physical eye witness. This is the base standard of all civilized justice systems.
Maybe that is the way the two witness rule should work, but in the hundreds of cases I have read about, that is not how it did work. Multiple cases may be spread out over many years, and over multiple congregations making it unlikely for it to be applied that way. It's not necessarily deliberate on the part of the elders, but more of a systemic problem, which the organization has not addressed.
Just to give you an example of some the problems that happen, in a case I knew of personally: This was my best friend, who had a young son that was sexually abused by a young brother she hired to babysit. At first the elders acted appropriately. The brother confessed and was reproved, the courts got involved, he was put on probation. About a year later the brother got engaged to a young woman with two children. My friend was concerned that this lady was unaware of the danger to her children, so informed her of his history. My friend was told this was none of her business, that the man was forgiven and given a clean slate, that if she said anything else about it she would be disfellowshipped.
I was astounded. These elders felt it was OK to put these children in harm's way with no warning to the mother. If you know anything about child sex abuse you know that there is a high rate of ricidivism. It's simply naive to think that someone is just going to stop abusing children because he said he was sorry and will have a wife now, that's not how it works.
Fifthly, you are just speculating about an alleged “conflict of interest”. The fact that very few elders are accused of child abuse means that there is no incentive for them to cover for each other.
So, elders don't investigate elders?
It's simple human behavior, in a small tight group such as an elder body It's hard to be impartial. It's not that the elders don't care or aren't trying to do right in most cases, it's the system that's at fault.
the title speaks for itself.
lots of coverage of the pope's personal (!
about a month ago we all could read jochie's post regarding investigation of sexual abuse among jw's in the netherlands.
Well, there is a big difference between "most" and "the vast majority". Statistically most men are not elders, so it's not surprising most accused are not as well. I have read hundreds of accounts of Jehovah's Witnesses sex abuse, elders are involved in many cases.
I won't deny that the shape of the issue is different in the Jehovah's Witnesses than the Catholic church, but that doesn't mean that there isnt an issue. One of the problems is this idea that the organization is somehow immune from these problems, the so called "spiritual paradise" the religion claims to enjoy, it creates a culture where people are more trusting and less likely to report problems.
Another issue is that the elders are the ones who investigate, and in too many cases they don't do a good enough job. Lack of any formal training in recognizing signs of abuse or in how to deal with it, a culture of "it doesn't happen here", as you have demonstrated, powerlessness among women, a leadership that steadfastly refuses to change the "two witness rule" are all a factor. This kind of thing was common among organizations in the fifties, there is no excuse for it now.
And if elders do abuse children, who investigate them? Their fellow elders. Do you honestly think that there is no conflict of interest here? It's just human nature to believe someone you know and like and work with. All the factors that make it unlikely anyone will be disciplined for child abuse goes double when an elder is accused. They are just not going to do anything to "bring reproach" on the organization, and an elder convicted of sex abuse would be a major scandal.
the title speaks for itself.
lots of coverage of the pope's personal (!
about a month ago we all could read jochie's post regarding investigation of sexual abuse among jw's in the netherlands.
JW’s, where the vast majority of child abuse is done by non-elder family members, in the home
I would love to see proof of this, I am sure you wouldn't make such a definitive statement without any proof, right?
o trying to compare an institution that admits it fostered an environment that permitted child abuse to one thatdidn’trefuses to admit that they foster such an environment or even have such an issue in the first place is really asinine
There, fixed that for you, my comments in bold.
good afternoon , .
i have been having doubts for many years and as most jw's i have certainly not done myself a favor by suppressing all of my critical thinking.
i am married with 3 kids and my wife and i are inactive, but my wife has made it very clear in speech and action that she wants to go to all meetings, field service, and indoctrinate our kids.
Play the long game. Say you want to be a better spiritual head of the house. Start a study with your children and your wife, use it as an opportunity to teach them to think for themselves. The transition from full cult indoctrination to full independent thinking should be very, very gradual. As your children get older, encourage them to think and reason for themselves, never criticise them for asking questions or speaking their minds. Ask leading questions, assign them to learn about the history of the religion to which you all belong. Critical thinking skills are like an inoculation against cults.
i believe that i have a good cause to sue the organization.
but i know that they have crafted themselves a legal loophole infinite loop.
so i was thinking that i should just sue the congregation that i know fucked me over.
It would take a good amount of money to pursue a lawsuit, plus possibly years of your time and energy. Is it really worth it for your pride? Why not take that time, energy and money and use it to improve your life and heal and move on from this instead? Being bitter is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
