LisaRose

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Posts by LisaRose

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  8

  Using the depression card: Only when critical to family?

  by JWdaughter in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i just was reading a thread and it occurred to me that "using" depression as a way to deflect from wt obligations is a mistake.

  it feeds their sense of superiority-because when you do finally leave or get kicked out, they will say how leaving jehovah ruins lives.

  they won't do anything with you anymore in any case, but why feed their delusions?.

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  LisaRose

  The reality is that people who choose to slow down meeting attendance and service when fading will come under a great deal of pressure from well meaning family and friends, and some people are just not in a position to be open about their feelings. When you only choices are to be completely honest and lose your family or to tell a minor fib, I am not going to condemn anyone for choosing the lesser of two evils.

  This is a short term tactic, but it can be very helpful during the transition from full believer to inactive JW. It can give the person time to become more sure of their feelings, to get their family used to the idea that they don't want to attend meetings and to get the elders off their backs. Yes, it would be great if everyone could be completely open and honest about their reasons for leaving, but that isn't the reality for most people.
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  25

  13 year anniversary

  by gerry in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  today marks 13 years since my wife and i have stepped inside a kingdom hall.

  after 29 years full on being a jw and a number of years serving as an elder then as the presiding overseer we pulled the plug.

  yes 13 years ago coming home from the first day of a circuit assembly i said to my wife “that’s it i am not going back”.

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  LisaRose

  Congratulations on your 13 years of freedom.

  Lisa🌹
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  25

  List of "pagan" things JW's allow

  by problemaddict 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what i'm looking for specifically is things that are "pagan" in the sense they predate christianity (or i guess judiasm to cover the ole mosaic code), that jw's allow or do.

  the ones that come to mind are below.. rings - rings seem to originate in egypt.

  for wedding ceremonies it became a symbol of "ownership" in rome.. pinatas - looks like possibly it originated in china as a part of the new year and a request for luck, and catholics later turned it into a beating of temptation type thing.. anything else?.

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  LisaRose

  Thinks with pagan symbolism:

  Wedding rings
  

  Honeymoons

  Flying kites

  Wearing neckties

  perfume

  Calendars, the months are named Roman God

  From JW facts:

  For example, when discussing piñatas, Watchtower advises to contemplate how they are currently regarded:

  “A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues.” Awake! 2003 Sep 22 pp.23-24

  It's hilarious that they say in one case it doesn't matter what the history is, what counts is how they are viewed today, but in other cases you can't do something because it once had a pagan meaning.
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  20

  UPDATE: My existential crisis comes to a close

  by Freeandclear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in case you read my other thread regarding my existential crisis and how it was making my life miserable and left me feeling hopeless, purposeless and joyless i though i'd share what's recently happened to me and my way of thinking and have i've for the time being resolved my existential crisis.

  i write every day in a journal.

  i've been doing this for years.

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  LisaRose

  Good for you, I think you have arrived at a very healthy place in your spiritual journey.
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  89

  Need advice

  by Drwho in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i'm a middle aged man.

  i dated a jw lady for 3 months ., we never had sex, just made out , half naked , well everything except underwear .

  she has been a jw for 40 years ., was married to a jw but he committed adultery 13 years ago so they divorced .

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  LisaRose

  I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody came here with the exact same story. I wish I could give you hope but it never really turns out well, the JW is usually guilted into going back to the meetings and breaking off the relationship, and the person is heartbroken. She is torn between her desire for a relationship and her belief that she can only survive the coming world annihilation by being a good JW.

  This is a cult, they have so seriously brainwashed your friend that she is at present incapable of thinking for herself. She is attracted to you, but at the end of the day her feelings of fear, obligation and guilt will probably win over her attraction for you. If you seriously want to invest time and energy into a lost cause, read Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan. What doesn't work: attacking the religion or criticising it in any way. She has been conditioned to see that as an attack by Satan and it will just stir up her fears and cause her to run.

  What can work is to work to establish trust, remind them of their interests and goals outside the religion and exposing them to critical thinking skills.

  Good Luck
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  8

  When a man stops believing in God he doesn’t then believe in nothing, he believes anything - G KChesterton

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  i have been reading rodney stark's new book triumph of faith, where he makes his argument afresh that religion is alive and well.

  in fact he says it's doing better than ever, and we are in the middle of a revival of faith.

  above is a particular quote he likes to use when refusing secularisation.

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  LisaRose

  So because some people in Iceland believe in Trolls, and Iceland is a secular country, it means that Atheists have all just traded in one set of superstitions for another? That's patently ridiculous. Not being religious does not necessarily mean you are an atheist, it simply means you are not religious. Now if you had a statistic that said the X percentage of Atheists believe in Trolls, you might make a case, but you don't have that.
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  133

  Why Are You Here?

  by Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers.

  as one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey.

  as former jws we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are.

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  LisaRose

  Why should believers leave just because not everyone here is also a believer? We talk about many subjects, most of them not related to belief in God. As ex JWs we all have a lot of things of mutual interest, so why wouldn't you just engage in those threads? Is everything an atheist says somehow tainted because we don't believe in God? Is your faith so weak that you will lose it if someone challenges your thinking?

  As a believer you have many choices. You could simply avoid threads that discuss whether God exists, or you could read those threads with an open mind and not participate, or you can choose to debate your belief in God. It's entirely up to you. So why leave and miss out on the things that are offered here just because not everyone believe the same as you?

  Personally I enjoy talking with everyone, believer or not. If I wanted to just be with people who all believe the same thing as I do I would have just stayed a JW.

  
  
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  50

  Sometimes I feel like I Should Believe something...

  by freemamaof3 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  has anyone else felt like they should believe something after leaving wt?

  i am an agnostic atheist and its so so hard for me to believe in a god or higher power.

  it just doesn't make sense.

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  LisaRose

  I did at first find the uncertainty uncomfortable, but that went away as time went on and I accepted that this life is all there is.

  I belief in my family and friends and beautiful sunsets and creativity and that is enough for me.
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  20

  My life has ended (be careful what you wish for part 2)

  by nevaagain in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  noone and nothing can really prepare you for the burning pain you feel when your spouse leaves you after 8 years of marriage.

  from one day to another, all your dreams, hopes and plans are shattered.. i still have so many questions which will remain unanswered in eternity.. the thread i made a few weeks ago, is part of this story.

  after learning about ttatt my plans involved to wake up my wife as well and exit the truth.

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  LisaRose

  
  I will probably get the blame that I am a coward for not leaving the truth alone when I woke up. I can say I am guilty for that point, but I am also guilty for loving my wife more than the truth or more than TTATT. I always wanted for us to do the things together and accomplish things together, finally I wanted to grow old with my wife one way or another.

  Stop feeling guilty! That is a Watchtower induced reflex, to blame yourself for not being perfect. Maybe you would do thinks differently if you knew how they would turn out, but you didn't (and couldn't ) have known, you did the best you could based on what you knew at the time, so stop blaming yourself, just stop.

  Being older I have seen a lot of marriage fail and I can tell you that it's very likely that she would have eventually left you no matter what you did. If she feels she married too young then that means she didn't feel happy or fulfilled, even if on the surface things seemed to be going well. She was just stuffing those feelings down because she thought she was stuck, it doesn't mean she was happy. Lack of fighting does not necessarily mean a good marriage, it can also mean you just don't care anymore. Would you really want to have stayed married to someone who feels they made a bad decision to marry you? Your leaving the religion gave her the out she wanted and she took it. I think you both will be better off in the long run, however painful that is in this moment.

  The end of a relationship us never easy, so give yourself some time to grieve, to heal and to reflect. You will move on from this and hopefully meet someone better, someone who loves you and wants to be with you.

  
  
  
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  17

  Successful Leaver

  by 2True in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was raised in the cult, a 'golden boy' in jw about 15 years ago.

  regular pioneer, went to pioneer school and then mts.

  my dad is a gilead graduate and is still a serving elder.

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  LisaRose

  Why is it that most books do not say 607 ?

  Because that is not when Jerusalem fell, no reputable bible scholar believes that Jerusalem fell in 607. The Watchtower only clings to that date because it makes their chronology work. As justification they say that the bible makes mention of "70 years of desolation", which they insist is a literal time period that doesn't work with 587. But other groups reconcile the 70 years with the 587 date, and the Watchtower itself teaches that the 70 years of desolation is figurative in the case of the fall of Tyre. It makes no sense that "70 years of desolation" is figurative in one case but must be literal in another. It's clear that the Watchtower is insisting that the 70 years is a literal time period only because the 607 date supports their chronology of 1914.

  Put that with their failed generation predictions and you can only conclude they haven't gotten one thing right.

  For a complete explanation:
  

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-70-years.php