on october 8, at our local kh.. i knew this day was in the offing - i have been playing hide and seek with the bastards for a few months now.
they tried to corner me before the co's visit, unsuccessfully.
i suspect he told 'em to 'get 'er done.
I am weighing the possible submission of a DA letter, not due to any sense of acountablity, but just to allow myself to have the last word.
If you want the really last word, send them a copy of my legal letter. It's on my website I sent one to the elders in my congo back in December of 1999 - haven't heard from them since.
i know of very few that would "dare" tell off a co but elders were different.
having been an elder for many years, it was very easy to go back and forth with a fellow elder and basically tell him he was dumb.
I was an elder and I was told off by a couple of members of my congregation after I grew a beard. This was just before I stepped down and faded out.
Our whole body of elders told off a CO several years ago. The CO then sent a scathing letter about us to the Society. The Society then sent the DO to see us. What the CO didn't realize was that the DO's wife grew up in our area and we were on very good terms with the DO. When the DO showed up, he was pretty cool about all of it. He told us that we were basically right and that because of the growth in the org that they had found it necessary to "dip deeper into the talent pool" when choosing CO's than they had previously. He told us that the CO was only there two week a year and to do what we had to to get through those two weeks. He also said he would have some pointed counsel for the CO about dealing better with bodies of elders.
i remember when i was a kid it wasn't unusual for someone to ask a question of the conductor during the bookstudy.
not that often but occasionally.
in my most recent years as a dub i can't recall anyone ever asking any questions.
VM44: From http://www.freeminds.org/psych/boast.htm. --VM44
"Legalistic authoritarianism shows itself in the confusion of the Christian principle of unity with the human insistence on unanimity. Unity is a profound, even mystical quality. It takes great effort to achieve, yet mere effort will never produce it; it is a source of great security, yet demands great risk.Ah, this brings back memories. I remember reading paragraphs from The Myth of Certainty to my wife as we were flying to our first exJW conference, a BRCI conference in Spokane WA back in 1997 or 98. I had started reading it before the trip. The more I read, the more it struck a chord with me. As I read the passage you quoted, it seemed to me to be the perfect description of a Watchtower Study. Now you mention it, it's time for me to read The Myth of Certainty again."Unanimity, on the other hand is very tidy. It can be measured, monitored, and enforced. It is largely external, whereas unity is essentially internal. Its primarily goal is correct behavior, while unity's is a right spirit. Unanimity insists on many orthodoxies in addition to those of belief and behavior, including orthodoxy of experience and vocabulary. That is, believers are expected to come to God in similar ways, to have similar experiences with God and to use accepted phrases in describing those experiences....
"Ultimately, unanimity is impossible. It is brittle where unity is flexible and therefore strong. A single dissenter destroys it (so the dissenter may have to be dealt with harshly for the good of the group). For this reason, real questions are generally discouraged. Phony questions, however, where the answer is known by all, are part of pleasurable ritual. They are asked and answered in a wonderful nonthreatening confirmation of 'group think.'"
-Daniel Taylor's The Myth of Certainty
during one of my book studies, the subject of hiv came up.
i was told that if a brother or sister was infected with the virus then they should humbly accept the fact that some people may not want them in their homes.
so anyone with the virus will be able to attend meetings at the kh but not the book study or any social gatherings.
During one of my book studies, the subject of hiv came up. I was told that if a brother or sister was infected with the virus then they should humbly accept the fact that some people may not want them in their homes. So anyone with the virus will be able to attend meetings at the KH but not the book study or any social gatherings.
You are likely thinking of the information contained in a 3/15/1996 letter from the Watchtower Society to all bodies of elders. It came out a little over a year after I stepped down. I had heard some of what it contained. When I read the whole thing, I was sickened.
The letter starts off talking about how we should follow the example of Jesus in showing compassion for the afflicted. But then it moves quickly to what the responsibilites of those "afflicted" are. These come in the form of additional questions to be asked of potential JWs who want to be baptized. The questions were included in the letter and in a insert for all the elders to put in their "Our Ministry" book. Here they are:
(a) What responsibility rests upon a person who is infected with a communicable disease that is potentially fatal?
Keeping an eye, not in personal interest upon just your own matters but also in personal interest upon those of the others. - Phil. 2:4.
All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them. - Matt. 7:12.
(b) To avoid transmitting a potentially fatal disease to others,
(1) why would it be better for an infected person not to initiate public displays of affection such as hugging and kissing?
(2) why would it be best to attend the Congregation Book Study at the Kindgom Hall, if at all possible?
(3) why should infected ones not react negatively when some choose not to invite them to their homes?
(4) why would it be wise to choose voluntarily to have a blood test before beginning a courtship?
I will post more on this later
well, the hard, rusty gears of theocratic justice has begun to turn, and the teeth have caught me.
for those of you who read my earlier threads, in february of 2005, a "sister" i had known for almost 30 years contacted me and wanted to know what i had learned in the years since i had faded.
after granting me full assurance of confidentiality, in writing, i disclosed to her the un scandal.
Right now, the WTB&TS is trying to hide their child abuse behind the skirts of "Clergy priviledge." A suit such as Elsewhere is suggesting would force the WTB&TS to either waeken their own case or leave Sister Beeotch twisting in the wind. What a fine recompense for her loyally exposing an apostate.
Suing over breach of clergy privilege may or not be possible depending on what state you are in:
In twenty-five states, the clergyman-communicant statutory privilege does not clearly indicate who holds the privilege.27 In seventeen states, the penitent's right to hold the privilege is clearly stated.28 In only six states, both a penitent and a member of the clergy are expressly allowed by the statute to hold the privilege.29
That was from: http://www.clsnet.org/clrfPages/pubs/clergyPriv.php
Also check out http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20011205.html for a story of how a New York woman's lawsuit against two rabbis for breach of clergy privilege was unsuccessfull. It seems that in some states CLERGY privilege is well named. The privilege is the clergy's, not yours.
well, the hard, rusty gears of theocratic justice has begun to turn, and the teeth have caught me.
for those of you who read my earlier threads, in february of 2005, a "sister" i had known for almost 30 years contacted me and wanted to know what i had learned in the years since i had faded.
after granting me full assurance of confidentiality, in writing, i disclosed to her the un scandal.
Wow Doc Bob, that was the best letter I have ever seen! I will save it in case I ever need to use something like it. Your letter was simply amazing. I was reading it thinking about the Elders who no doubt had to ask the Legal Dept what to do. Of course the Legal Dept would just tell them to let it drop unless he (you) becomes a flaming apostate standing on the street corner with a bull horn and picket signs
The basics of that letter came to me one night back in 1995 when I was early in my exit from the [B]org. I knew that someday I would end up being invited to appear before a committee and I wanted something all ready for that occasion. Part of my reason for writing it was to get the elders I had served with to realize just how much legality is built into the WT "judicial" system and how they could be subject to some legal exposure. I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the elders got that one - and also the first letter I sent to 70 of my old JW friends that earned me the invitation to appear before the committee. That is Letter 1 on my site.
Several people have used the legal letter with good success, so I suspect that the legal department is familiar with it at this point. In every case I know of where someone had not already met with a committee and they sent that letter or portions of it to the committee, the judicial action stopped. What I suspect happens is that the elders either make that generic announcement "Brother/Sister ...... has, by their actions, shown that they no long wish to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses" or they give a "special needs" talk about the situation.
The copyright announcement that you may or may not have noticed on my site is built into the hosting software. Anyone who wishes can use whatever parts of that letter they want. If you do use it, please let me know how it worked.
well, the hard, rusty gears of theocratic justice has begun to turn, and the teeth have caught me.
for those of you who read my earlier threads, in february of 2005, a "sister" i had known for almost 30 years contacted me and wanted to know what i had learned in the years since i had faded.
after granting me full assurance of confidentiality, in writing, i disclosed to her the un scandal.
Hi Lenny,
When I was invited to appear before a committee to face charges of apostacy, I sent them a long legal letter. I haven't heard from them since. See my letter at http://www.docbob.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6
Bob
thats funny.
everything ended in "as it were".
where i used to attend.
"Thinking people agree ...."
lets say a brother or sister loses their job, falls on welfare, doesn't have enough to eat.
what do the elders do?
a) tell them that the organization is not a place to beg but to preach, to give and not to receive.
greetings group.
i was just reading over some old literature and found some amazing quotes made by the watchtower; i think my head really hurts now.
i thought i would post this last one to see if you could get through it without getting a headache.
"We want to give deserving ones the opportunity to learn of Jehovah’s undeserved kindness and the Kingdom hope."- Our Kingdom Ministry 12/93, page 7
