Posts by OnTheWayOut

12

"Gentile Times"

by zeb in

i am reading again the work.."the gentile times reconsidered" by carl olof jonsson.

it is very heavy going but he uses world sources as used by wt to totally refute the 607 thing.

he sent his studies on this to bethel ny and waited on jehovah.

I read it quite a few years ago and passed the book along recently. It is quite detailed in debunking 607BCE. I honestly cannot even remember all the stuff that debunks, but just knowing that it was made readily available to the GB and was so casually dismissed tells me all I need to know.

29

Fading and not "outing" yourself, what are your thoughts on it?

by Brock Talon in

fading and not "outing" yourself.. what are your thoughts on it?.

i ask, because i just received a scathing personal message on facebook from a person who read my latest book and in it i describe myself as a fader.

i was not dfd and i did not da myself.

OnTheWayOut

Someone identifying himself as an ex-JW commented on another person's review of my book and said more or less the same things about fading: "Most people find it very damaging to their very soul to hide who they really are." "Fading is essentially living a lie." "One cannot 'appear' to be one way for a long period without 'getting lost' in their own deceptions - unless one has no conscience and therefore is not bothered by any amount of lies or deceptions they do..."

Let me repeat my answer to him for your thread, since it seems to fit so well:

I wrote a book. I did not recommend that you personally fade. You are correct in many ways. But not always. I have managed to fade in a way that I am NOT lying to people I am just staying away from elders and not discussing religion with JW relatives. I'm doing what I want. All I have to do is things like don't smoke, don't vote, and keep celebrating holidays without putting up decorations. It's not a big deal. I'm already married so I'm not having sex outside of marriage. I don't smoke anyway. I don't have children to withhold holidays from. I am myself. Apparently, it won't work for you. I do recognize that your points are valid and should be considered by everybody. I don't paint such a broad rigid picture as you however.I also know others who are free to live their life as they choose but refrain from telling their JW relatives every last thing that they do so they are still themselves without losing themselves. thanks for your thoughts. the alternative for me would be to have no contact with those j_w relatives. So I wouldn't be myself in front of them anyway. I wouldn't be in front of them. That everybody's choices if they fade or not.the alternative for me would be to have no contact with those j_w relatives.

42

Please Focus on the Bible

by terrypike in

hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.

yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?

communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.

OnTheWayOut

I believe events will soon enough test the credibility of my Idea

I think you are saying that something in current events will bear out the revelation or some nonsense in the Bible. Whatever it is, people have been saying this for way more than 1000 years. Don't forget to report back after you think some event fulfilled some vague expectation but then nothing further happened. Plenty of people have disappointed the same or worse than Russell or Miller before him and plenty more will come and go.

57

How many of you still believe in God or are still Christians?

by JWCartPusher in

hello, i asked a new but old friend how many people are still christians after leaving the watchtower's mind control agency, for statistical purposes do you mind if i do a survey and see how many of you are believers?.

please don't post if your not a believer out of respect for this poll, we need to sharpen each other's sword and help build each other up and meet new friends over the internet with faith in god or some other force of the universe.

i asked another person how we can still manage our faith after getting burned by the high group mind control, he had a few ideas but he's not really involved with god because of how life burned him.

OnTheWayOut

I need help trying to keep my faith that God still cares about us, my goal is to see if it's possible to be involved in a personal relationship with the Creator and his Son, or if your Buddhist or Hindu, or anyone who believes in a Higher Power that keeps you going.

Why? Why do you need help? A personal relationship with one who does not answer is nothing. If a few or even a few billion people tell you what you want to hear, that doesn't change how "the creator and his son" don't answer.

Start with living a good life and stop assuming that throwing a dart at a wall of belief will help you pick the right belief system. If "their" God existed, shouldn't "He" understand why you left religion after being burned and turned to logic and science until you hear from Him?

26

QUESTIONING THE OBVIOUS or deconstructing Jehovah's Witnesses

by TerryWalstrom in

what is the most obvious thing you can think of about jehovah's witnesses from the standpoint of worldwide recognition?.

wouldn't it be 2 primary things: the name jehovah and secondly, the public testimony or witnessing?.

let's begin deconstructing those two things.. first, why would christians refer to themselves by any other name than christian?.

OnTheWayOut

While you are preaching to the choir, let me play the "Witnesses advocate " for a moment. They make it clear that they aim to stand out from the millions that call themselves "Christians." If they just identify themselves as Christians, then the people they attempt to recruit would say "I'm a Christian too" and it would just lead to nothing but arguments about all paths leading to God. This deconstruction, if it were enough, would be enough to dismiss all "Christian" denominations. That is good enough for us in the choir but not for "Christendom."

The writers of the NT never intended for splinter groups to form, but hoped that "The Way" was going to be one group. "Christian" was not their label until later. (Debatable when.)

On their city-to-city or nation-to-nation ministry, the choir must turn to the advocate again. Witnesses are told and shown in their JW that the recruiting was everything to the apostles and disciples in the early days.

Thanks from the choir for your thoughts. How's that going to help believing JW's?

57

How many of you still believe in God or are still Christians?

by JWCartPusher in

hello, i asked a new but old friend how many people are still christians after leaving the watchtower's mind control agency, for statistical purposes do you mind if i do a survey and see how many of you are believers?.

please don't post if your not a believer out of respect for this poll, we need to sharpen each other's sword and help build each other up and meet new friends over the internet with faith in god or some other force of the universe.

i asked another person how we can still manage our faith after getting burned by the high group mind control, he had a few ideas but he's not really involved with god because of how life burned him.

OnTheWayOut

.....for Statistical purposes do you mind if I do a survey and see how many of you are believers?
Please don't post if your not a believer.....

So after you remove or ignore all those you asked not to post- the nonbelievers, how many of the "only believers" were believers? Please update us on how your "survey" went.

Hey, maybe we are reading this wrong. Maybe you want people who used to be Jehovah's Witnesses who still believe in God to respond so you can see how many are still Christians. (Although you didn't word it quite that way.) Do you seriously expect even a small percentage of former God-believers from a Jesus-based faith to now be Hindus or Muslims or worshipers of Odin?

7

What would you do with an abuse settlement?

by StarTrekAngel in

what would you do if you were conti or lopez and had a large award?

sure, the options and the tastes are many but consider this.... i don't know if this has already been covered or mentioned but i think there would be no better investment of that money than to put into a non-profit.

on dedicated to seek out and bring forward more cases.

OnTheWayOut

I suppose that if my money came from Watchtower on a big settlement, I would dedicate some of my life to giving back to the ex-JW community somehow. I would probably put up billboards in major areas (especially in Summer near convention sites) directing people to jwfacts . com and the like. I think I would have a huge campaign called "Your Children Would Rather be Playing, and They Want to go to College." I know I would organize (or expand what others have already organized) gatherings.

Part of my message would be that "they" are giving out their literature and that people should feel free to take literature every day and destroy it, burn it, toss it out with food garbage, etc. as this would hurt their cart campaigns and speed up their demise.

But alas, a huge thing I would do is celebrate my freedoms and enjoy life and only do the above as much as I want to.

47

I'm Ready... Thank you

by Garrett in

jw
friends

hey guys,.

so, something amazing happened recently.

i recently met with an old and very good friend of mine.

OnTheWayOut

2/ I no longer want to be pestered by the elders.
.............
4/ It's time to move on with my life and I feel like I might need this to truly move on.

To me, number 2 is a big enough reason. I found closure in my fade in other ways, but number 4 is huge for many. It seems this would be good for you, especially with number 2. Others can do what they want. We all find our own path. Congratulations on your impending disassociation.

26

Rational Buddhism?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

does a type of buddhism exist that doesn't include the metaphysical aspects of traditional buddhism?

.

OnTheWayOut

Very little of Eastern teachings insist on full belief. You can meditate, you can benefit from the ancient wisdom, you can accept and reject what you want. I highly recommend books by Pema Chodron: http://www.amazon.com/Pema-Chodron/e/B000AP9Y2A

Also, some Zen philosophy is helpful: http://www.amazon.com/Each-Moment-Universe-Being-Time/dp/1590306074/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425390542&sr=1-1&keywords=every+moment+is+the+universe

I regard much of the eastern thoughts as viewing the scientific world in a spiritual way. In other words, it reflects how we interact with time and positive thinking and energy and the karma stuff is just about being good and beneficial to each other and receiving the same back. Science is wonderful but it can't really give us the calm and deep thoughts on those things like Buddhism and Taoism can. I certainly don't believe any reincarnation stuff or that the Buddha lived the life that the myths teach. I believe that the teachings are not meant to be taken absolutely literally and that most eastern philosophy followers actually get that. I believe that teachings on Jesus were written in the same way, but were corrupted into literalness somewhere along the way.

15

Daily Mail: Married JW woman, 36, had sex with 15-year-old boy breaks down in tears as she is told she faces jail. Elders there for support

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2976095/married-woman-36-sex-15-year-old-schoolboy-breaks-tears-told-faces-jail.html.

married woman, 36, who had sex with 15-year-old schoolboy breaks down in tears as she is told she faces jail .

married mother of two broke down in tears at merthyr tydfil crown court.

OnTheWayOut

These elders probably are not there to "support" her but rather to take notes as was mentioned.

But if they were there to offer support to a repentant member along the lines of priests who have received confessions from repentant sinners, that would be great. Standing there with someone doesn't mean you approve of what they did. But I am confident they are following up for Watchtower Legal and have no real concern for the woman.

Now, it's a whole different ballgame if she were to get back to the congregation and meet with field service groups that include minors and nothing of a warning is said. That kind of support for her would be in conflict with the safety of others.

And as a guy, I would like to say that a 15 year old male is not really hurt by such things. I would like to say that, but it isn't true. Sure, he won't be traumatized the same way a 15 year old female taken advantage of might be traumatized, but make no mistake. His views of sex and women can be warped by this. He may think they are all predators, they all want it, they are just tools, people should just take what they want. It increases his chances of being a predator in the future.