OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  6

  PERFECT TITLE : Obsolete building sails heavenward, helping train firefighters

  by paulmolark in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.chinookobserver.com/co/local-news/20150320/all-fired-up-obsolete-building-sails-heavenward-helping-train-firefighters.

  plans to demolish an aging church created an opportunity for a multi-agency training burn.. .

  long beach it was a sunday morning service unlike any other.. on march 15, a few dozen spectators mostly church members gathered to watch a fire training at the kingdom hall of jehovahs witnesses north of long beach.. the burn was made possible through a cooperative arrangement with the local congregation and fire departments in pacific, wahkiakum and cowlitz counties.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Man-o-man! Despite it being an effort toward good will in the community from the local JW's, I would love love love to be a firefighter that gets to destroy a Kingdom Hall using fire.
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  64

  Mind control.

  by New day in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.

  do you think this is a conscious ploy?

  if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.

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  OnTheWayOut

  You are on to something. We debate this ourselves because some feel more strongly than others one way or the other. It does seem that somewhere back in the early days, "Bible Students" were free to disagree with certain things and as time went on, there was less tolerance for that.

  I don't think that everyone among the presidents of Watchtower to the Governing Body all got up every morning and said they were ready for another day of mind-controlling the members. But when the writers of the strange doctrines said that God "spirit-directs" them (leaving room for error as compared to "inspires") they have to kind of insist that members go along without questioning it.

  To me, the biggest factor in Watchtower going further and further down the path of dangerous mind-control was some kind of paranoia that members could not be trusted and would not do the right thing unless they were told what that right thing was. That, and always always always putting the preservation of the organization ahead of anything that might benefit individuals has gotten them where they are today.
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  17

  Must the Elders Always be Told?

  by snugglebunny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i recall that some years ago the wt stated that not all offences need to be reported to the elders, but that confessing serious sins to another person who was not an elder could suffice.

  the article stated that this did not include sexual offences and that these must be reported to the elders.. can anyone throw any light on this please?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  There might possibly be some ancient article on confessing to Jehovah and maybe just ironing out a problem with a brother by going to that brother, but in the latter case I don't think it was about sin. It was about a difference between two "brothers." Heck, there might be an actual quote about confessing to another "person." But I just cannot imagine that it included serious sins such as the sexual ones or lighting a cigarette.

  YES, that last one (smoking) is considered a serious sin- way more serious than beating your wife, lying on your taxes, getting a bit drunk. I could imagine that if it were "just" beating your wife, then they might say that there is no need to report it.
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  35

  Attitudes of WT Society Leaders Towards " Rights " of Child Abuse Victims and Elders

  by flipper in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  these excerpts i'm sharing with you are from the july 1st, 1989 letter from the wt society to the elders and it gives outsiders a good idea of the attitude of the wt society leaders towards child abuse victims and even towards their own appointed elders.

  and it shows wt society is first, foremost, and mainly concerned about financial fallout from potential lawsuits.

  one short quote was used from this letter on the abc news nightline report about candace conti - but what i'm going to share with you will be other excerpts from that same letter that are just as, or even more revealing.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Many of these lawsuits are the result of the misuse of the tongue.

  Man, don't even get me started on how that double entendre is SO TRUE IN THE CASE OF PEDOPHILES. It's not a laughing matter, but I only wish they could stop and laugh at their own past misstatements.

  "The legal consequences of a breach of confidentiality by elders can be substantial . If the elders fail to follow the Society's direction carefully in handling confidential matters, such mistakes could result in successful litigation by those offended."

  And sometimes, just contacting the Society (as YOU ARE ALWAYS DIRECTED TO DO) can be a breach of confidentiality. This smacks of insisting on telling Headquarters about a crime, but also insisting on not warning the congregation.
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  15

  [REPOST] Memorial Non-Attendance: The Single Most Impactful TTATT Witness to Family and Friends

  by AMNESIANO in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (originally posted march, 2014)anyone who has awakened to ttatt and has conscientiously left the organization--especially a once-prominent, highly-regarded, studious believer from a prominent multi-generational tribe of jws-- after decades of devout, high-profile "serve-us," who continues to put in an annual appearance at the memorial thoroughly subverts and undermines, by this one act, any hope s/he may entertain that his/her departure will stir family or former friends to question the whole watchtower bamboozle.

  by this one concession s/he assigns him-/herself by every single jw to their handy and dimissive purgatory: the "spiritually-weak.".

  nothing blasts a louder, clearer, and more deliberate message to the jws who personally knew you and those familiar with your jw bona fides that you are not merely "not making the meetings," "inactive," or "spiritually-weak," but that there is a conscientious reason you have rejected the entire watchtower society life than choosing to forego what they know you once believed to be jehovah's must-attend, one-and-only, holy/sacred event of the year for his people, the lord's evening meal.. you hand them the very justification they so relish to self-righteously label you as a "submarine witness" deserving of jehovah's, and more importantly, their judgement.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I have to agree with the Mad Irishman. I do admit the thought is good. I agree that in my case, attending the Memorial would be sending a hopeful message that I might come back one day because I must still agree with the doctrines if I attend the Memorial. I must not want to be destroyed at Armageddon and hope Jehovah can forgive me for everything else- IF I attend the Memorial.

  So I personally am better off to skip that meeting and send the message that I don't agree with the doctrines and won't be coming back anytime soon.

  But many people have family that can only overlook so much inactivity. It is highly likely in some cases that people will lose contact with family were it not for this one yearly appearance.
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  21

  Drugs and Alcohol Ruin Your Life

  by campaign of hate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this point was raised in another thread vaguely, and wanted to try and expand on it.. the wt has said (and rightly so in my opinion) "that excessive use of drugs and alcohol can ruin your life".

  in my eyes this is a fact.. this is where it starts to get a little suspicious, as they also say (or subtly hint at) "that if you leave the wt you will becoming addicted to drugs and alcohol and will ruin your life".. its almost like a self fulfilling prophecy.

  as there are a lot who leave the borg and they do start drinking heavy or smoking, or taking drugs...or whatever.. the wt capitalizes on the fact that people want more freedom, and they subtly ingrain the thought that.

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  OnTheWayOut

  You leave the Watchtower and discover that you have wasted decades serving a lie. Your closest friends, your mother and father, your adult children, your grandchildren ALL shun you. You were already drinking a bit much because of the pressure of the lifestyle. Nothing really changes, but you don't hide your drinking as well because there is no longer much of a reason.

  Rumor gets around that you are now a drunkard.

  Ridiculous judgmental cult.
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  59

  what is the best line to say to a JW handing you an invite to the memorial

  by nonjwspouse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have some ideas, but want more to choose from..

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  OnTheWayOut

  "You know, I will accept your invitation and I will come to your meeting, if you just answer a few questions for me. I recently heard about Jehovah's Witnesses on ABC Night-line. Are you aware of all the pedophile members at your local church? Do they still make children go out in their recruiting work? Do you believe bad reports about other religions like the Catholic Church but give your own religion an automatic pass or have you watched that report?"
  
  "Wait. I really meant what I said about going."
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  64

  POLL: Will You Be Attending The Memorial & If You Are---Why?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just invited.

  i thanked my old elder friend and he left.

  (i'm not going).

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  OnTheWayOut

  No calls, not even an invite placed at my front door. I barely knew the date because my wife had to inform me.

  I guess I am supposed to walk up to the cart and take my invite.
  
  On another thread, Blondie posted Watchtower information that inactive ones are still part of the flock and elders have to answer for what they do for them. I guess Jehovah will be upset at some elders around here this year.
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  38

  rumor out that governing body is going to adjust the loveing disfellowshiping arangment df yes shunning no.

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anyone confirm they seem to be having disagreement writing dept and service dept some feel that df ok as long as you do not add wholesale across the board shunning regardless of the sin ..

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  OnTheWayOut

  If there is a rumor, I would suspect that it is for the courts or the governments to hear about. Maybe it is something that will wind up on their website, But it won't be actual policy. They will say that members choose to shun on their own, and that it is not a written policy. They will say that they never encourage things that are damaging to fragile teens but that some family members are choosing tough love in order to protect the family and to show the best kind of love.

  They are too far gone to abandon their actual enforcement of shunning DF'ed/DA'ed ones. It's still their policy and I wouldn't even believe anything they put in writing.
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  27

  Why do people "come back"?

  by kairos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know of several examples of ones that "left the truth" for up to 20 years, only to suffer through the reinstatement process and feel like they are finally back on track.. how does this happen?.

  i personally know of one example where a father of three, leaves jws, abandons wife and family, lives as a gay man then comes back 20 years later as a partaking member of the anointed..

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  OnTheWayOut

  I think some on this site have commented that the Witnesses as a religion seem quite different now than some years ago. There has been changes I believe over the years. These changes may continue until it reaches a point that I may feel differently about the preaching work.

  I know the thread will be derailed anyway, so I will try to stick to the main point and address that comment.

  Why do some go back? There are some, like the one I quote above, who must feel that the Watchtower and it's leaders are the closest thing to "the truth" and just need some adjustments. They just don't consider enough how the Watchtower has NEVER EVER EVER been correct about any of their doctrine that are unique to them. NEVER!!!!!!! They just don't think enough about how Watchtower leaders demand total obedience or else members are shunned. Maybe they lack social skills and don't want to try to fit in anywhere but would rather suffer the shunning in order to be totally accepted back into the fold in a few months.

  I suppose that if you are done with education, and don't care to share birthday cake with coworkers, and are prepared to either give up your free time or else have your friends and elders criticize you for not doing so, then you may be ready to start examining the doctrine itself before returning.

  I don't expect such a person to listen to the likes of me, as I have seen the light about all of Bible-based belief, but even if a person still wanted to worship the God of the Protestant or Jewish Bible, they could do better to go without organized religion or find some nondenominational group. Deciding on a percentage of correctness just seems silly to me. Either your religion lets you believe what you want without shunning or ostracizing you, or who needs it?