Posts by OnTheWayOut

67

My Issue: How To Step Down As A MS Without Getting Noticed

by JW_Rogue in

so that other thread was fun but now i need some help with something.

i was born in the truth most of my family is in.

although they aren't outwardly super spiritual i doubt any of them would ever leave.

OnTheWayOut

If you are already doing things that other brothers don't want to do, then you are slaving for them unnecessarily. You are dependable enough that you have given them a great chunk of your freedom and you are not taking it back by waiting to get removed or spending several more years doing your fade with little progress.

You really need to bite the bullet and move on with your fade. Will it be noticed? Will some alarms go off? Sure. You know what happens a few months after the alarms went off? You've had a break from your assignments and people tend to forget all the fuss from a few months ago. Putting it off doesn't change that. The only reason to put it off is to leave all at once down the road, say to another congregation or just walking away from attending meetings.

Here's some "bite the bullet" methods:
1. Go to another congregation. Could be foreign language or not. When you get there, turn in 1 hour of field recruiting every month or even be daring to say "I have none this month." They probably won't ask you to be an MS. Even if they do, say "No, I feel really bad about my hours and so much is going on with me. No thanks."
2. Develop depression. Still turn in 1 hour every month or even Zero for a couple of months (as in 2 or 3 months only, let's not drag it out). When asked about your situation, or when you get up the nerve to speak to an elder, you say "I have been depressed (about TTATT) and I have seen a doctor (on television if not in person) and am on medication (even vitamins or breath mints are 'medication'). I just find it so difficult to motivate myself. It has been suggested that I remove as many responsibilities as I can. I need to resign as an MS." Don't take any compromise such as "Why don't we just cut back" or "Let's just keep you as an MS and remove responsibilities until you are better."
3. Simply resign and offer little reason. "Brother, I have some personal issues I don't wish to discuss and I wish to be removed as an MS and from the school."

Whichever way you go, you can be free of responsibilities at the Hall. You can quit the Ministry School at the same time with the depression method or you can refuse to enroll with the moving method. It's a bit much to offer no explanation the third way and also quit the school, so it would normally wait a few more months. People will soon forget that you were an MS.

109

The Confederate Flag

by Simon in

the latest controversy over the confederate flag just sums up to me the state of dysfunction that exists in american society.. in summary: a white supremacist nutter shoots 9 black people dead in a church.

he's clearly inspired by the messages of others which the confederate flag is often a symbol of.. it seems like a no-brainer to remove it.

not only isn't it removed, it isn't even lowered at all as a mark of respect.. and of course now there are the people who want to defend their right to have it.

OnTheWayOut

I am going to clear it all up for y'all.

The Confederate flag was virtually a museum peace. The one they nowadays use is a battle flag and did not actually represent the Confederacy. And it was brought out of obscurity because of the battle over the civil rights of African Americans.

After World War 2 and all along into the 1960's, more and more southerners (and southern legislative bodies) brought out the flag as an answer to civil rights and especially desegregation of the schools.

So a good ole' boy who loves the Confederate Battle flag might just be ignorant and not understand, or he might know that the flag is a symbol of rebellion against the federal government. When Lynyrd Skynyrd uses it, they are probably just encouraging a rebellious attitude. But make no mistake when a government continues to use it. It is a message of defiance against the mixing of the races and they fly it in order to respect "the old south" and the way it was.

Let your good ole boys and Lynyrd Skynyrd do what they want and let people decide what each individual means when they use it, but remove the battle flag from the grounds of state governments.

52

Bethel Meeting at Regional Convention

by MrTheocratic in

i decided to go to the bethel recruiting meeting yesterday to test out my theory that the organization is in decline.

i assumed that if there is a general feeling of apathy by many in the org, then certainly it would be shown up by the lack of enthusiasm or zeal by many to sign up for bethel service.

well let me say that based on what i observed, this organization is not going anywhere.

OnTheWayOut

I wonder how many were there because their parents "encouraged" them to attend?

Male bethelites can have their pick of the hot witness chicks.

There you go. High School seniors and recent grads are told to go to the meeting. Some other young ones go because they had no help from JW mom and dad to go to college and they are expected to pioneer and work at the shoe store, so they would rather go to Bethel. Perhaps, to see the world and perhaps, to get away from mom and dad.

And the number one reason: They aren't having any Watchtower approved sex and they don't see too many financial boosts in their near future, and they really want to have sex. They might as well become Bethel boys and get the hot girls whose parents will even approve of them. Heck, they may be total losers in their congregation with no hope of ever making MS, but then they can become like rock stars.

27

when you were a JW what did you do with your fortune cookie?? LOL

by James Mixon in

someone who is not familiar with jw none sense would think, are you.

serious, a fortune cookie.

is there a scripture that say you will be destroyed when.

OnTheWayOut

Fortune cookies are for fun. I don't know if this is a coincidence or if you read my post. Just before you started this thread, I had posted the following on Flipper's Tahoe thread:

Like many former JW's, I enjoy things that would make Witnesses roll their eyes, if not go screaming out of the room shouting "It's demonized." I buy an occasional lottery ticket and go to church funerals and weddings. I curse a little bit (just for emphasis). I love music they might find a bit rough. The main things I do that they would disapprove of are eating meals with all these wonderful ex-JW's, many being DF'ed, and read things they would automatically ban.

But one more thing I will add to my list is Chinese fortune cookies. I typically don't believe in horoscopes and psychics and the like, but fortune cookies are just for fun. Well, that's all changed now. I had Chinese food last week and didn't get around to unsealing and eating the fortune cookie until this week. Here's what I read:

"Something on four wheels will soon be a fun investment for you."

Isn't that crystal clear? OTWO and Zed's excellent driving adventure is about to start on July 6th, 3 weeks from the day that I opened the cookie. We will be the first ones out of the gate for this gathering, unless Terry tries to ride his bicycle from Texas. (Then he better start soon.)

So our trip is already blessed by "fortune." The myth is that when China was occupied by Mongols in the 13th and 14th century, an uprising was planned and a hidden message on rice paper was put into 'Moon Cakes' to tell the Chinese of the date. The uprising was successful and began the Ming Dynasty.

The Chinese in California looking for gold and building the railroads did not make Moon Cakes but had biscuits of a sort and carried on the tradition with sayings and fortunes, which Americans found quaint. Since our trip is to California, the origin of American Chinese Fortune Cookies, it's gotta be true. So I am thrilled to know it will be so awesome.

Don't bet that the lucky lottery numbers inside will get you millions, but with such a "sign" from karma, I know we are going to have a great trip.

24

Children of murdered Charleston minister have "already forgiven" their Mother's killer.

by nicolaou in

i'm not judging these poor young people, if this is how they are coping with the trauma of losing their mum i can only wish them well.

i have to admit though that my jaw dropped when i first saw this interview, i couldn't square their reaction with what i understand as 'normal' human grief.. is this religiously motivated form of forgiveness a positive thing?

should i acknowledge this as something to be said in favour of religion?.

OnTheWayOut

I do not believe that religiously motivated "forgiveness" is a good thing automatically. In this case, I would even question it and call it a bad thing, as the reporter seemed to question.

I am sure these young relatives of a victim were sincere with "Love is stronger than hate," but that's just a slogan. They are just saying that their love will overpower this man's hatred. They do this because they think it makes them look better in the community and the church and in the media. I don't think they need to return hatred for hatred, but I also don't think they need to express that they forgive this guy.

I probably would have said how I intend to voice my concerns to see that my loved one gets the justice they deserved.

12

Why is a mass shooting in a church worse than other mass shootings?

by undercover in

jw
friends

i'll preface this by saying that i was horrified by the news of the shooting in charleston, a town that i visit quite frequently, and i know where the church is.

i don't mean to make light of the situation, but my question is serious, after having watched news pundits, politicians, neighbors, friends, express shock, horror and outrage over the events.. they, like me, were shocked by the school shootings, and the theater shootings, and other mass shootings.

but i sense a different shock, a different reaction, to this event.

OnTheWayOut

Tragedy in a southern church full of African Americans takes us (and especially the media) back in our minds to a time when such places were bombed or torched by white men with sheets on their heads. It cries of hatred. Churches get more sympathy in the media because of the ideal that they are places where, as Barack Obama said, people seek solice and peace.

This article that sir82 linked is very fair about it. We imagine that such places are set apart from other spheres in life and when we hear about tragedies, we think how that is so much hatred against such innocent people. But of course that isn't typically true as black churches (and others) are often political centers that would make them more valuable targets in any hatred wars than any campaign offices.

Politicians must be the slicksters they are and put these tragedies right up there with school shootings, and to be fair, there are typically plenty of innocent children in the church. The media will always be over-the-top.

Besides neighborhoods, churches and schools are the main place where segregation is the norm. Charleston has a history of banning blacks from Christian churches even though the white people in them had a hand in converting the blacks to begin with, so churches of their own were formed by blacks and they have tended to stay segregated all these years later.

Well, a white man might really stand out in a black neighborhood and put people on guard so that he may not be able to kill so many. But people in a church might just think he's another Christian that didn't realize how much he stands out.

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

OnTheWayOut

Mind controlled or not.

Oh, yeah. For sure.

I never had to deal with such a situation, but I did have to deal with some things where the welfare of others was concerned and I, along with others, decided to inform people of the danger to their welfare. This was despite a C.O. saying not to do so. I simply told the people involved that I was not allowed to tell them the following words that I was about to say.

I am pretty confident that if I thought a situation was dangerous to some, I would do the right thing. And courts typically rule that people should have done the right thing.

Like yourself - I agree that the WT Society should make it MANDATORY for elders to first report child abuse to the police - THEN report it to WT legal.

Treat it as seriously as an accusation of murder. If Johnny comes running up to the elders and says that Brother Chester killed someone, you bet your ass they would call the law first. If they thought Johnny was lying, you bet your ass they would have to get help for Johnny.

Stand by an alleged victim. It is not saying you believe him to aid him to go to authorities and get the psychological help he needs. It is not taking a side in a judicial matter against the accused. Elders get it wrong and think the first thing is to decide who to form a judicial committee against in these situations.

40

Elders are Complicit with WT Society in Child Abuse Scandals- Gonzalo Campos Case

by flipper in

of course, most of us realize this.

however sometimes even on this board sometimes threads have stated that the jw elders have been occasionally painted as the " fall guys " who take the rap for the wt society leaders - which of course is true - to a degree.

however- that being said , many times elders have failed to protect - or even have failed to advocate for child abuse victims when it has been within their power to do so.

OnTheWayOut

They have Stockholm Syndrome - and they don't even know it.

Don't get me wrong on this, as I am not excusing the elders involved. But that's what it is- they are mind-controlled into thinking they are doing the greater good by protecting the organization before the individual. They think that reporting all to Headquarters is their obligation to God and they are "obeying God before men."

As far as "clergy penitent privilege " goes, I don't remember any details, but I think it has been shown that this does not apply when a danger to people exists and I believe it has also been shot down in court because the very first thing a JW elder does is report the crimes to Watchtower. Since he reports it, it is not confidential and the elder is not acting as a clergyman receiving confession, but rather as an interrogator and investigator (policeman) and a judge passing sentence.

15

Why Do The Demons Love Mexico?

by minimus in

jw
friends

the mexicans must be pretty bad, right?

OnTheWayOut

I am not sure what the thread is about but.......

Everyone loves Mexico.

89

Problems with Common Atheist Arguments

by FusionTheism in

the reason i entitled this "problems with common atheist arguments" instead of "the case against atheism" is that many atheists claim that atheism is not a belief system, makes no claims, and has no requirements to follow, so there's no way to argue against atheism itself.

i will go along with this idea, and argue against the most frequently used arguments of atheists instead of atheism itself.disclaimer # 1: this is not an argument against atheism or all atheists.

no, rather this is an argument against the most frequently used claims and arguments made by the atheists i speak to on twitter.

OnTheWayOut

I am not a "common atheist " so I hope my arguments are better.

#1. I see where you are going with philosophy of what a person accepts, so feel free to examine anecdotes and whatnot. Many uncommon atheists (and some common ones) recognize that there is very little absolute evidence in the universe for things of nature and science, so we weigh evidence for its value. Fossils being where the theory say they should be are accepted, theories that account for all known variables are accepted. Each must weigh these for themself. As for me, anecdotes are weak, especially when I can find people of varying faiths swearing by an anecdote being a proof of their different beliefs.

#2. The multiverse theory is mathematical and not "universally " accepted. And it doesn't address the very beginning of the mass-energy. We just don't know enough to accept that. But accepting and theorizing are different. We make progress by considering possibilities, especially those that fit known data. You feel free to personally reject multiverse and dark matter/energy theories, string theory, yadda yadda. Keep in mind that theories might have more evidence in the future (like black hole theory ) so that's part of pondering and examining.

#3. I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the moral values of Yahweh. You don't need something outside of humanity to judge Yahweh's treatment of humanity. If you attempt to compare God's treatment of men to men's treatment of animals, men have failed and God has failed (if "God" is Yahweh of the Bible). It is ludicrous to figure that lowly humans being treated poorly just don't understand and cannot judge because the being treating them poorly is superior. If you mean we are animals or pets to God and we deserve similar treatment as that which profit driven companies like Purdue Chicken dish out to chickens, then why worship such a bastard?

I will leave the rest for another time.