OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  11

  Crisis of Conscience

  by FreeGirl2006 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  do you think that any of the clueless, amnesiacs that appeared before the rc will have a crisis of conscience over the abuse situation?

  seriously, with the grilling they received from our new heroes, they would have to be sociopaths not to do some long hard thinking about the lack of empathy and compassion the borg displays as a top down policy towards abuse victims.

  i can understand these idiots not having an awakening within the confines of their daily lives since they stay cloistered in their belief system, but the rc forced them into the real world with their questions and one would hope, made them think.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Cult members are not mindless drones, despite what we joke about here. I think we tend to be over the top with jokes because most of us were once there, and we still have loved ones who are there. Changes and forced hard looks have made many of us wake up.

  Of course the odds are high that some elders will look at how they were grilled and how the lawyers and the public see what was done, and decide that something is wrong with Watchtower business as usual.

  I relate as one who woke up, not by rigorously defending Watchtower policy, but by tiring of that policy chipping away at my core. I can imagine someone slapped in the face by policy. While I know most will not wake up, it's hard for me to imagine an elder not taking a serious look at WTF he is defending.
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  39

  Why I have renounced Atheism and become a believer again

  by cantleave in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i have always said that if a god showed itself i would follow the evidence and renounce my atheism.

  i have now seen enough to start believing again, i am so happy, i feel a inner contentment, when he connected with me i really knew it was him.

  if you are not a believer you will not understand this, but trust me, look at the evidence, open your heart to him, let him in and your life will change for the better.

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  OnTheWayOut

  “Humans are pattern-seeking story-telling animals, and we are quite adept at telling stories about patterns, whether they exist or not.”
  ― Michael Shermer

  Patterns in snow or a cloud or even an interstellar cloud are not actually noodles.

  "To understand is to perceive patterns."
  - The Imaginary Foundation

  Now this explains quite a bit. It reminds us that "understanding" means figuring out (or seeing) how things fit together. We extract meaning from chaos by spotting patterns. We then assign it as the signal in the noise. Believers in religion do the same thing. They find a pattern in the chaos and see meaning.

  What if there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster? What if it's just your desire to see a signal in the noise? What if pointing out the average global temperature vs. the total number of pirates is just the use of faulty logic?

  And Punk, I found it in toast:
  
  

  
  
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  82

  Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.

  i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.

  first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I didn't know just how much faulty logic I used in talks at the Kingdom Hall until I properly freed my mind. And even where I disagree with people on things now, I try to understand why they think the way they do.

  One huge thing I have gained is learning what anecdotes are. Another is to have a healthy dose of scepticism.

  But I don't reject things automatically just because they are difficult for my imagination - a multiverse or the big bang. Heck, even though I am atheist, I am willing to see actual non-anecdotes in the form of evidence of a creator. Until it presents, I am just not willing to embrace the gods of men.

  Conspiracy theories are tough, though. Some seem to make sense, but evidence is typically just anecdotes. I mean, most religious beliefs seem born from conspiracy but evidence is hard to come by.
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  27

  Im curious. What kind of lifestyle the GB live?

  by SecretSlaveClass in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  anyone ever seen pictures or the actual houses and cars the gb own?

  im wondering if the live a middle class lifestyle or more like high society?

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  OnTheWayOut

  They all worked their way up the ladder as pioneers of some sort. The alternative to their life is what everyone else at Bethel gets or go home. Regardless of how high or low their quarters seem to be, they travel anywhere and everywhere high style on the corporate clock. They are treated like movie stars / rock stars and get green handshakes. Pretty good compared to Sister Regular Pioneer at the Kingdom Hall.
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  25

  I wonder with all this sex abuse drama if Wt would ever apologize to Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson.

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  wt obviously must realize now the value of those that tried to enforce change on them.

  i think if it wasn't for these people doing what they did wt would be in even more drama now.

  so my question is do you ever think wt would voluntarily reinstate and publicly apologize to bill bowen and barbara anderson for all their hard work in bringing reform.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Barb would have to stand in line behind blood policy victims and those who were promised the end by 1914, 1925, 1975, etc. Everybody who ever deserved an apology from Watchtower is still waiting.
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  55

  The Australian Royal Commission will NOT do a damn thing to the WT!

  by Calebs Airplane in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the rothschild family will not allow the aussies to take any significant action against their religious wing (mormons, jws, adventists, etc.).

  the worst outcome for the borg will be a relatively small fine and a deadline to change their rules.

  that is all..

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  OnTheWayOut

  If children a a bit safer, all the better.

  If the Watchtower is exposed in only Australia, great.

  We wish for the moon, but may only get moon pie.

  The RC will do at least "a damn thing to the WT."
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  25

  My book......

  by punkofnice in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  ...is now on kindle with the paperback to follow soon.. thanks to you all for your contributions.

  any questions, please pm me.. .

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  OnTheWayOut

  I will be checking it out soon. I like your sense of humor.
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  579

  Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was fooled by the witnesses.

  what can i learn from that?

  not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Six manned landings and numerous unmanned landings, along with telescopes that can see things left on the moon. Twelve astronauts supposedly walked the moon and brought back rocks.

  It's too much to fake the six landings, too many people involved to keep a secret, too huge a risk to fake the rock, too difficult to put up six American flags by later unmanned craft so that they can be seen. (True, Apollo 11's flag fell down, allegedly from takeoff rocket exhaust, but it is still there.)

  As much as 28% of the Russian public believes the landings were faked, but that's a pride thing. The Soviet government would actively have proved such a faking if they believed in it, they had the expertise in how difficult it was because they failed to get there.

  If you want to believe the very first moon landing was faked to win a Space Race, that is one thing. You could believe the technology was there, but not quite ready in 1969. You could claim the second landing (or another) put the evidence for the first landing there. But that just buys you a little time past 1969 and still leaves quite a handful of people to keep quiet and a Soviet government to trick. Remember that the Soviets may not have gotten a human being to the moon, but they had already sent hardware to the moon and into orbit and tracked the American missions.
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  27

  Theocratic Warfare

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no doubt we noticed the royal commission ask vin toole (and i think terry o'brien) about the expression "theocratic warfare"?.

  they were asked to explain it and what is meant to witnesses.. vin outrightly lied when he said he "had never heard of that expression!".

  i remember him using that term in conversations and talks many times!!

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  OnTheWayOut

  It is very simple. He was actively engaged in theocratic warfare when he answered a question about the same.

  "I have never heard of such an expression (coming out of the mouth of a non-member)."
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  10

  The Guardian: JWs Church says it will comply with mandatory reporting of child abuse

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/aug/04/jehovahs-witness-church-says-it-will-comply-with-mandatory-reporting-of-child-abuse.

  august 4, 2015. australian associated press .

  the jehovahs witness church says it will comply with mandatory reporting obligations when they learn about sexual abuse crimes against children in their congregation.. a royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse has heard that the theocratic church records more than one child abuse allegation every month yet in 60 years has never reported them to police.. in the second week of a hearing into the churchs handling of abuse incidents, the head of the communitys service desk, rodney spinks, acknowledged they dealt with matters internally and did not encourage reporting to police.. the service desk under the auspices of the churchs legal entity, the watchtower bible and tract society australia, is the first point of contact for elders looking for advice on how to deal with child abuse reports.. spinks said the first issue addressed is the safety of the child, and elders are referred to watchtower publications on the matter.. they are also given generic advice based on a handbook that says they should never suggest not reporting the allegation to police.. spinks acknowledged they had not had a practice, against the wishes of the victim or otherwise, to directly report to police.. the commission chair, peter mcclellan, pointed out there were mandatory reporting obligations when a crime had been committed.. spinks said he had been made aware of this in these hearings and the church would accept and comply with mandatory reporting, regardless of our strongly held religious belief that individuals should have the right to decide what is done with that information.. he said when there were mandatory reporting requirements with some sort of uniformity across the country we will happily and willingly comply.. mcclellan pointed out that uniform laws were not yet in place and they would differ from state to state but they would impose a criminal sanction on a person who knows [about an abuse crime] and does not report.. spinks said he understood that.. mcclellan said the church needed to have a very good look maybe with the help of the churchs lawyers at what the law provides.. the commissioner also pointed out that what the jehovahs witnesses were doing was different to what other churches might be doing because you might be taking allegations and resolving, as you see it, the truth of the allegation by reason of your process.. the commission has heard that the jehovahs witness process is based on a biblical rule that the wrongdoing is only proven when there are two witnesses, and expect the abuse victim to confront the abuser..

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  OnTheWayOut

  Not that this isn't good news but:

  The Jehovah’s Witness church says it will comply with mandatory reporting obligations when they learn about sexual abuse crimes against children in their congregation.

  That's so generous of them to be caught in such a mess and then agree to do what is now mandatory of them anyway. Do they want a parade held in their honor for this landmark decision?