OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  22

  Who Really is ..... The Blood Washed Multitude (Great Crowd) ?

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for jw's the issue has never been who the faithful and wise servant (f&ds) was.

  that is just misdirection and sleight of hand.

  it is plain from the context that this was obviously a rhetorical question meant for self introspection.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I have been washed clean in the sauce.

  
  
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  86

  Geoffrey Jackson. Seems he will be compelled to front up.

  by umbertoecho in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  pray for brother jackson of the governing body!.

  in todays news from australia it appears that, despite his previous declination to appear when invited, justice mcclellan from the australian royal commission on child sex abuse will officially summon brother geoffrey jackson to the stand after all.. ..... the commission was due to conclude its hearings into the jehovahs witnesses on wednesday but justice mcclellan said he will now call geoffrey jackson, a senior member of the churchs governing body in new york who is currently in australia, to appear next week.. .

  source.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Here's what wiki says about "The Right to Silence" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence)
  in Australia:

  Australia has no constitutional protection for the right to silence,[2] but it is broadly recognized by State and Federal Crimes Acts and Codes and is regarded by the courts as an important common law right. In general, criminal suspects in Australia have the right to refuse to answer questions posed to them by police before trial and to refuse to give evidence at trial. However a person must answer questions related to their name and place of residence if asked to by police. As a general rule judges cannot direct juries to drawadverse inferences from a defendant's silence (Petty v R) but there are exceptions to this rule, most notably in cases which rely entirely on circumstantial evidence which it is only possible for the defendant to testify about (Weissensteiner v R). The right does not apply to corporations (EPA v Caltex).
  There are numerous statutory abrogations of the right, particularly in the area of bankruptcy. It is also not available to witnesses testifying before a Royal Commission. There are also abrogations of the right in recent Federal anti-terrorism and Victorian organised crime Acts.[3] Each of these acts set up coercive questioning regimes which operate outside the normal criminal processes. Direct testimonial evidence gained from this coercive questioning cannot be used in any subsequent criminal trial of the person providing the evidence, however a witness who testifies in his defense at a subsequent criminal trial who provides a different testimony to that during the questioning may face prosecution for perjury.
  The state of New South Wales passed the Evidence Amendment (Evidence of Silence) Act 2013 [4] which allows the judiciary to direct the jury to draw unfavourable inferences against a defendant who omits a fact during police questioning that they later rely on in court in a bid to be found not guilty.[5] The law strictly applies to those over the age of 18 and who have an Australian legal practitioner physically present and available. The change is designed to reflect reforms made in the United Kingdom in 1994 and will apply to indictable offences that carry a penalty of five or more years imprisonment.
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  9

  bethel

  by Sabin in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  mr vincent toole, he gets 3 meals a day his accommodation, daily exercise & a degree to be a lawyer.

  they are asking for kids ice-cream money so they can send their monkeys to uni to get them off child abuse cases, while telling the ones giving the money not to get a higher education.

  holy shit i never thought about that before.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Everything is mixed up about Jehovah's Witnesses. Good points on the "higher education" and the ice cream money.

  Other things all wrong:
  Members are called "publishers" yet they are only distributors of material from the publishing corporation.

  They claim no human leaders, but say that the elders, CO's, etc. right on up to the Governing Body "are the ones taking the lead." They want members to think they are the leaders but to say they are not.

  Governing Body members are not "inspired" but are "spirit-directed." All a member gets out of that is that it is the same thing as "inspired" but allows them to change things that become clearer- note that they never say something was "wrong." A definition of "inspire" is: To affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence. Sounds the same to me as their "spirit-directed."

  Members can be disfellowshipped for having contact with currently disfellowshipped or disassociated ones, but the organization tells the world that members decide on their own whether to have contact or to shun.

  It's an all-volunteer organization. Members do not have to be on the Theocratic Ministry School or do any time in the door-to-door work or really anything they don't want to do. But see what happens when members decide not to do things or do not turn in any recruitment time.

  They say that atheists are not content to "keep their views to themselves." Such irony really doesn't need to be further commented on. Just as the irony of naming a magazine AWAKE for these willfully ignorant people doesn't need further argument.

  Jehovah's Witnesses read in Acts of a man who asks "What prevents me from getting baptized?" But then they have something like 200 questions that must be answered before someone can be baptized. As sad as that is, they further say that baptism is the most important thing a person can do, so he/she must be a spiritual adult. Yet they allow people as young as 6 years old to get baptized, and then hold that against them if they try to leave the religion as a teen or young adult.

  
  
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  68

  My thoughts on Geoffrey Jackson

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first off, i don't think that dude is going to show face.

  he's most likely on a plane already.

  if he shows it's bad pr and if he doesn't show it's bad pr.

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  OnTheWayOut

  So I just watched the excerpts about G. Jackson, this one starting at 46:00
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BONW67c9SEw&feature=youtu.be&t=46m12s

  They read a letter on how G. Jackson wouldn't be of much help as he is not part of setting policies. Such bullcrap. And as the questions for the Branch representative go on, the RC determines that it's bullcrap. Good for them.

  I do believe that Watchtower is going to find themselves being ruled against in severe manners for their arrogance to misrepresent their roles to judges.

  Jump to the last few 3 or 4 minutes of the video to see that the RC is pissed at Jackson and his answers.
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  11

  Extremely difficult situation the .Org is in

  by Lemonp in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as far as i can imagine, the .org is in a lose, lose, lose situation right now.

  if jackson shows to the rc, and policy chages, then bible interpretation was changed sans-holy spirit.

  policy change is an admission of guilt, not helpful in future civil court cases.

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  OnTheWayOut

  The .Org is in a Lose, Lose, Lose situation right now.

  That is true. But Australia is a small part of Watchtower. A GB member speaking to the RC can be spun and crafted so that it's not so terrible for Watchtower. It can even be spun so that the rest of the members that might hear of it feel that the GB was correct in what they did or at least has done no harm that wouldn't have happened anyway. Granted, it isn't true. But all that matters is survival in Australia and appearing good in the eyes of the worldwide membership.

  But yes, it is a Lose, Lose, Lose situation. Spin and survival and trying to look good to the members are all things they would rather have avoided.
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  11

  Crisis of Conscience

  by FreeGirl2006 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  do you think that any of the clueless, amnesiacs that appeared before the rc will have a crisis of conscience over the abuse situation?

  seriously, with the grilling they received from our new heroes, they would have to be sociopaths not to do some long hard thinking about the lack of empathy and compassion the borg displays as a top down policy towards abuse victims.

  i can understand these idiots not having an awakening within the confines of their daily lives since they stay cloistered in their belief system, but the rc forced them into the real world with their questions and one would hope, made them think.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Cult members are not mindless drones, despite what we joke about here. I think we tend to be over the top with jokes because most of us were once there, and we still have loved ones who are there. Changes and forced hard looks have made many of us wake up.

  Of course the odds are high that some elders will look at how they were grilled and how the lawyers and the public see what was done, and decide that something is wrong with Watchtower business as usual.

  I relate as one who woke up, not by rigorously defending Watchtower policy, but by tiring of that policy chipping away at my core. I can imagine someone slapped in the face by policy. While I know most will not wake up, it's hard for me to imagine an elder not taking a serious look at WTF he is defending.
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  39

  Why I have renounced Atheism and become a believer again

  by cantleave in

  1. social
  2. humour

  i have always said that if a god showed itself i would follow the evidence and renounce my atheism.

  i have now seen enough to start believing again, i am so happy, i feel a inner contentment, when he connected with me i really knew it was him.

  if you are not a believer you will not understand this, but trust me, look at the evidence, open your heart to him, let him in and your life will change for the better.

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  OnTheWayOut

  “Humans are pattern-seeking story-telling animals, and we are quite adept at telling stories about patterns, whether they exist or not.”
  ― Michael Shermer

  Patterns in snow or a cloud or even an interstellar cloud are not actually noodles.

  "To understand is to perceive patterns."
  - The Imaginary Foundation

  Now this explains quite a bit. It reminds us that "understanding" means figuring out (or seeing) how things fit together. We extract meaning from chaos by spotting patterns. We then assign it as the signal in the noise. Believers in religion do the same thing. They find a pattern in the chaos and see meaning.

  What if there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster? What if it's just your desire to see a signal in the noise? What if pointing out the average global temperature vs. the total number of pirates is just the use of faulty logic?

  And Punk, I found it in toast:
  
  

  
  
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  82

  Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.

  i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.

  first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I didn't know just how much faulty logic I used in talks at the Kingdom Hall until I properly freed my mind. And even where I disagree with people on things now, I try to understand why they think the way they do.

  One huge thing I have gained is learning what anecdotes are. Another is to have a healthy dose of scepticism.

  But I don't reject things automatically just because they are difficult for my imagination - a multiverse or the big bang. Heck, even though I am atheist, I am willing to see actual non-anecdotes in the form of evidence of a creator. Until it presents, I am just not willing to embrace the gods of men.

  Conspiracy theories are tough, though. Some seem to make sense, but evidence is typically just anecdotes. I mean, most religious beliefs seem born from conspiracy but evidence is hard to come by.
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  27

  Im curious. What kind of lifestyle the GB live?

  by SecretSlaveClass in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  anyone ever seen pictures or the actual houses and cars the gb own?

  im wondering if the live a middle class lifestyle or more like high society?

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  OnTheWayOut

  They all worked their way up the ladder as pioneers of some sort. The alternative to their life is what everyone else at Bethel gets or go home. Regardless of how high or low their quarters seem to be, they travel anywhere and everywhere high style on the corporate clock. They are treated like movie stars / rock stars and get green handshakes. Pretty good compared to Sister Regular Pioneer at the Kingdom Hall.
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  25

  I wonder with all this sex abuse drama if Wt would ever apologize to Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson.

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  wt obviously must realize now the value of those that tried to enforce change on them.

  i think if it wasn't for these people doing what they did wt would be in even more drama now.

  so my question is do you ever think wt would voluntarily reinstate and publicly apologize to bill bowen and barbara anderson for all their hard work in bringing reform.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Barb would have to stand in line behind blood policy victims and those who were promised the end by 1914, 1925, 1975, etc. Everybody who ever deserved an apology from Watchtower is still waiting.