Posts by OnTheWayOut

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

A huge part of their own demise.

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

Starting page 3 replies:

introvert 2, great comments about " bumbling moves of the GB" and "weirdos."

sir82, I even question that people are going to the website. In the past, they had to push more and more literature onto people- mags, tracts, a book, the Bible- to get them recruited. I highly doubt people go to the website more than once or twice and then google the Watchtower or JW's and find better stuff about them.

James Mixon, that's typical. Many USA congregations in a busy hall have lost closeness as they rush out and say "See you next meeting."

Heartsafire, I have heard of many Spanish (and other groups) not supporting shunning- just plain ignoring it. That's part of the death spiral. If they don't shun, more feel free to leave. If they enforce shunning, those that leave get their family to leave (or stay, but be pissed off and not donate as much).

JWdaughter, the worldwide work fund is supposedly supporting a massive Kingdom Hall building fund, but now members know it's not. I think donations will go down and contribute to the death spiral. Actually, the funds are part of the pedophile defense fund, but they don't say that. But there's plenty they are spending money on.
I don't think they will have a quick death. I hope hope hope I am wrong. It may pick up momentum. Your WWCOG comments give me more hope.

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

Page 2 replies:

sir82, and this is on the heels of taking everyone's money and promising there's a great building work. They will have members questioning things and add to the exit spiral.

freddo likes your comment, sir82.

James Mixon, I used "not knowing the anointed," specifically the GB, in my elder resignation letter. I definitely knew better by the time they got on video, but I would have expected something better, something more dignified from everything they said and did. If God "spirit-directs" you (which by definition is really the same as "inspires) then you won't be goofy and petty and talking "spanks" and other nonsense. You won't be telling members that the expenditures outweigh the donations right after robbing the congregations.

StarTrekAngel, I see switching away from print as a necessary part of a printing company's death spiral. Magazines have done it. Newspaper is dying. So yeah, many members aren't contributing for the literature, but I think they were nearly at a loss before starting to bail out. Damned if they printed, damned if they didn't. The real estate game, glad you brought it up. It's profits, but look at their terrible timing. After 2008, Bethel properties are worth far less in dollars. Kingdom Halls haven't bounced back enough from then either. The plan to build more commercial-like instead of residential-like buildings is good, but too late. They needed them a decade or more ago. I think it adds to the idea that God isn't behind their decisions.

antes8080, thanks for sharing personal observations. I think without literature, "publishers" just won't care to remain busy. And they are tired. I think all the reasons listed are part of them becoming inactive. It will cause them not to get their kids in, add to the death spiral.

James Mixon, so they need a Joel Osteen. That requires the current batch to allow such a person in their mix. They seem to avoid inviting into the circle, someone who will take over the circle, Still, it could happen as a move of desparation. I still say any bold move will burn out in time, though. These are not the 700-Club or megachurch types.

WingCommander, 3 congs. and more are common in many areas. I have seen double halls with 8 congregations. I know they can also build a cheaper hall in a rough neighborhood and sell 3 or 4 in good neighborhoods to pay for it and come out ahead. That may be how they pretend the building work starts up again.

Dropoffyourkeylee, amen to that. Thanks.

ivanatahan, thanks. Slowing of growth make them say the end is closer. But then the members expect "the end" to arrive. Vicious spiral. Excellent thought: "People are finally realizing that God's 'chosen religion' is just another man-made religion that can't even fend for itself." George Carlin said it: "He's (God) all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”

LostGeneration, my mother's congregation hasn't had to do that yet, but there's been talk for a few years that they would sell off their convenient (valuable) hall property and drive way the hell out there to another. I think they will not be going back into homes in the USA, and I think they don't give a damn about poor "service" attendance anymore, as literature is a loss. But my mother definitely doesn't want to drive all that way all the time.

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

Page 1 replies:

neverendingjourney, I was in a foreign language cong. and get that it was seeing it all for the first time. Too bad that guy didn't wake up.

Crazyguy, I agree. Third world countries were their growth. But it wasn't sustained there. They figured out that the religion sucked. The thing was that first world countries were paying for the growth and now they are not paying "enough." They pull the plug in third world and growth goes away. It's going to spiral now. Too bad it'll be a slow spiral, in my opinion. I hope I am wrong and the work is sped up.

elderlNewton, I think they have been getting creative for years to make the U.S. seem to grow. The last growth was all in foreign language congs. and they are figuring it out that the religion sucks, or at least their growth is done. English Americans have been done for awhile.

tim310rd, I think they may try that. Their loss after 1976 arrived did not take away their gains because of 1975. But I think they will wimp out and not declare the end so definite. And I only think it will really work for retaining longer, I doubt it will have much effect on new recruits- maybe a higher percentage of kids will stay for awhile. But they will leave in droves when the 120 years is up. 2035 could be a real problem for them, and many current GB will be alive still.

LostGeneration, many still thought the GB should have stuck with the 1914 generation without an overlap and then they lost faith after 100 years. But the Halls closing- that adds to the spiral effect. Less halls, less people will drive to them, less donations as they gotta put it in the gas tank, less money- they will have to close more halls, etc. etc.

freddo, your two points are excellent. My wife was in a third world country (well, maybe an emerging third world country) this year and they got internet.

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

Cofty, thanks for your thoughts. Financial support is the end-all and the most important figure. If they plummet in membership but increased in donations from the literature carts, they would not care one bit. But it just isn't happening. The members have traditionally gave time instead of money, and their time is down and their money is not up.

sir82, they may indeed find a way to increase memorial attendance, but even though they claimed growth and a tremendous response to their web presence, it went down one year. I will contend that stopping the count of partakers is a sign of what's to come- the making up of numbers based on web-hits. They will enter the realm of fiction. Well, they probably already entered it, but they will expand it.
Numbers went down before and may slightly rebound here and there, but I am being bold in predicting that their days of expansion and growth are done. The internet, their goofy thoughts, poor handling of child abuse, their taking the money from congregations- all that and more- I say it's unrecoverable and will be their downfall.
I could be wrong and they can find a new way to recover. But I would bet that they are looking for ways to be content with a smaller membership right now.

68

My Explanation of God.

by LAWHFol in

i am a theist & this is my version of god.. instead of using the term god, i'll use "unseen presence".. this unseen presence, is perfect in every way.

this presence is so perfect it can seem a bit boring.this perfection can be seen in the laws of science, for example gravity.. it does not sometimes work, depending on the mood of some one in the sky, it always works, perfectly.

gravity does not get angry and decide to stop working, and cause the death of innumerable living beings, it just works, through thick or thin, it is reliable.. what allows this unseen presence to remain perfect, is the fact that it does not act based on emotion, or strategy or regret.. it acts based on law, mathematical law.. this unseen presence is not partial to jews or muslims or jw's it is completely impartial at all times, to everything that exists.

OnTheWayOut

I am an atheist & This is My version of God.

Instead of using the Term God, I'll use "Creation of Man".

This "Creation of Man" is flawed in Every Way. No matter how hard each group or individual tries to make their god into perfection, they can't cover everything, and they mess up.

They typically put their "Creation of Man" outside of the Laws of Science to explain him/her/it. For example Gravity.. The "Creation of Man" found in the Bible makes the sun stand still at one point, which just could not happen. The writers of the Bible make the son of their "Creation of Man" able to defy gravity and walk on water, even allowing a human to walk on water. And you would be hard pressed to find any exceptions in the "Creations of Man" throughout all of history. Each and every one seems to be above or beyond the laws of science. Why, the "Creation of Man" of Judaeo-Christianity is even exempt from believers' insistence that all matter and energy must have had a beginning.

Despite the assertion in this thread that the poster's "Creation of Man" does not Act based on Emotion, we read clearly that it does act on emotion constantly, feeling regret over creating man or angry at groups or individuals, causing great destruction of lives all the time.

This "Creation of Man" from the Bible is very Partial. In the beginning, a human must be without the knowledge of good and bad yet totally obedient. That develops into the "Creation of Man" preferring descendants of Abraham- the Jews- over all others and having their walled city simply collapse despite the "Creation of Man" never revealing himself to the non-Jews. Later, all people are supposed to convert to the beliefs that a guy born in obscurity and killed in obscurity was the son of this "Creation of Man" with a kinder, gentler message. If you don't accept that, then you can go to Hell.

This "Creation of Man" is very high on himself and jealous, it does desire to be Worshipped and Praised, it does declare it will punish those that say it cannot be Known.

This "Creation of Man" has a ton of Laws in the Bible. Some are self-contradictions to each other.

This "Creation of Man" has made endless Commandments for Humans.. depending on which humans are telling you this.

This "Creation of Man" is a thing of superstitious sheep herders. Move on from it and embrace your own intelligence and the collected wisdom of science. and Evolve.

74

Jehovah's Witnesses May Have Peaked in Membership at 8 Million (+/-)

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but i have read enough on jwn to state my opinion pretty strongly.. memorial attendance for 2015 was down.while they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new kingdom halls, and everybody is still in recovery from watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new kingdom halls.putting gb members on the videos at jw .

org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men.

instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.. the gb lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation.

OnTheWayOut

I don't have all the details of their new "service year" numbers, but I have read enough on JWN to state my opinion pretty strongly.

Memorial attendance for 2015 was down.

While they kept saying they were going to build a bunch of new Kingdom Halls, and everybody is still in recovery from Watchtower taking all the local money away, they say pretty much that there isn't enough money to build new Kingdom Halls.

Putting GB members on the videos at jw . org has allowed people to really put a face and personality to these guys and remove the mystery of how they should be such deeply spiritual serious men. Instead they see silly thoughts about tight pants and, really everything that comes out of Lett's mouth is delivered ultra-goofy, along with the money reports.

The GB lost credibility a little more with every new light that shone down, with the strangest one being "overlapping generation."

Young people in first, second, and third world countries are finding access to the internet. Even long-time faithful ones are being steered to the internet. Regardless of how much they are told, they will stray and take a look at jwfacts or negative reports on child abuse or something about the Australian Royal Commission or YADDA YADDA.

They have manipulated numbers for peaks for years, but that is catching up to them.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated.

27

Evolution and Creation—both are stories!

by lsw1961 in

there are number of nobel laureates and other great scientists in both the camps defending their respective theories of evolution and creation, which means both are just stories, and both suffer from having no eye-witnesses.

if either of them were true, all scientists would have accepted it unanimously as they do with rest of the laws such as law of gravity..

this does not mean that there is no god.

OnTheWayOut

Your logic is like this:

All left-handed people die, therefore left-handedness is either evil or causes death.

You leave so many important details out and reach outlandish conclusions.

So you claim that neither evolution nor creation is true because "all scientists" have not accepted one or the other unanimously.

34

Hypothetical Question...

by JW_Rogue in

i was just thinking that the org has said lots of outrageous things over it's history and most jws just continue onward without a second thought.

so my question is what do you think would have to be said from the platform or wt to get people to get up and walk out immediately?

is it even possible?

OnTheWayOut

"Watchtower has decided that the paradise earth is not real."

"The organization of Watchtower is the false prophet."

Printed in a magazine: "We blew it, we spent all the money and need more. God didn't bless us. We really don't have any clue what we are doing. And when you all accepted 'overlapping generation,' we laughed for days."

"We are immediately starting tithing of 10% and we will need your tax returns for 3 years."

4

Young couple invited to School for Kingdom Evangelizers

by StarTrekAngel in

a young couple from our cong has been invited to attend the school for kingdom evangelizers.

we found out because they rent a small home from my mil.

they came to tell her they will be leaving for florida for one month to two months.

OnTheWayOut

If I were to 'put the rent on hold,' I would ask them to move out entirely and not expect me to lose rent while they are gone. "Put your stuff in storage so I can get a new tenant." That, or pay the rent for the month you are gone and we can break the lease after you find out if you will be leaving. (If there is no lease, even easier to ask them to leave.)

Whatever their future, you can bet it's entirely unpaid.