Posts by OnTheWayOut

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

OnTheWayOut

....or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?

I have to believe that any group that moves as much money as Watchtower- be it religious, political, or commercial- has those that rake off funds selfishly. I would even imagine that WTS honchos thinks it's important to grease the wheels with their lawyers, accountants, suppliers of various things. And I imagine most of the people raking the funds feel they deserve it.

I don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

I don't either. The GB and virtually everyone came up the ranks of pioneers, having very little along the way. They don't need millions to feel they have made it to the top. And they can look at the likes of Ray Franz- they would have nothing if they walked away or blew any whistles, and they probably can't write a book as good as his.

they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving Bentleys.

But don't get too sure of that. They may typically fly at a higher class and stay at upper class hotels. And if you are a GB member that wants a great vacation, give a talk at the convention in Honolulu. And while Rutherford's day of big Cadillacs are gone, who needs a permanent driver when the locals will pick you up for free in a nice SUV?

I suspect it's more of a power trip for them than a wealth trip. The thought of 8million people hanging on your every word must be enticing for them, and they probably believe their own hype that they are gods chosen ones, christs brothers etc... Ray Franz never mentioned financial issues in his books and I would have thought he had the perfect opportunity to highlight any corruption of that type.

They definitely are on that power trip. They have plastered themselves all over their jw. tv. And the finances today could be completely different from back then. If there is any actual corruption in finances, I don't imagine the GB initiated it and may be kept in the dark.

14

Changing meanings of words: "Brother" and "Sister".

by Open mind in

ever notice how most jws use the titles "brother" and "sister"?

in my experience, 99% of the time it was not a term of endearment.

it was actually a term of formality very much like "mister", "mrs.", "miss" or "ms.".

OnTheWayOut

Part of why I thrived for quite awhile as a JW was because the ones I was surrounded by were sincere and sounded like they were truly "brothers and sisters." They used the term because the cult said so, but I only used it from the platform. There were a few elderly ones I used it all the time with, out of respect.

It was probably easier for me because I was a young adult male who converted to JW. I could get away with calling the elders Steve or John.

19

What if moving the world headquarters of the Watchtower is just a cover-up?

by WireRider in

what better way to scam a few hundred million off the top?

with all the conversations, and truly distractions, of shortfalls and money problems - sell off about 1.2 billion of highly valued, tax exempt, property in brooklyn ny and build an ehhh 500 million property upstate.

what happened to the missing 700 million?

OnTheWayOut

Let me add:

I remember one congregation easily voting "Yes" to $10,000 in improvements to the property which did not need to be done- cracks in the parking lot pavement made it "difficult" to remove snow, and a whole new parking lot was laid. Wrought-iron fences replaced when they could be repaired.

This was easy for the elders to support because "It's not OUR money." One other elder (besides me) who was against these expenditures asked if the others would shell out that much money on their own home if they thought they could do things a cheaper way. But the answer was "Well, it's NOT my own home."

There is a prevailing attitude among the elders that certainly must be the same at the Headquarters level- "Spend the money, it's not ours. We'll get more." Hell, they probably really do expect that Jehovah will bless their expenditures.

19

What if moving the world headquarters of the Watchtower is just a cover-up?

by WireRider in

what better way to scam a few hundred million off the top?

with all the conversations, and truly distractions, of shortfalls and money problems - sell off about 1.2 billion of highly valued, tax exempt, property in brooklyn ny and build an ehhh 500 million property upstate.

what happened to the missing 700 million?

OnTheWayOut

They are obviously skimming off the top for their well-connected suppliers- builders, accountants, lawyers, realtors, etc. They are obviously building nicer headquarters than they need. I mean, they could have sold all the Brooklyn properties and moved to existing New York state properties. If they are going to become a web religion, they could run it from one building.

I don't believe there is a false money problem, though. I think it's deeper than they let on. We do not get to hear about the pedo-lawsuits where a gag order was in place. We know that voluntary donations from non-Witnesses for the literature has always been tough to even ask for, let alone collect. We know that the expectation upon the members paying for the literature has been met poorly all along. We know that assemblies/conventions have been their cash-cows but we don't know if they have not kept up with the organization's money woes in other areas.

The thing with members is that they always feel that they give their time, so they only give so much money. I mean- straight up, if the Mormons encourage education and a male member earns $70,000 (USA) a year for his family, he gives his total yearly tithe of $7,000 and probably gives time also. Can you imagine a Witness anywhere giving that amount of money? If they drop $100 a month in the congregation box, $100 in the box at the Assembly Hall (both waaay high from what I have seen in years past) then they contribute only $1,500 a year.

100

10 Years out of the JW Organization- What I've Learned ( For what it's Worth)

by flipper in

jw
friends

10 years ago i stopped attending jehovah's witness meetings for good.

walked out of the kingdom hall cold turkey never to return based on injustices i observed among others and myself at the hands of elders giving out not god's counsel but personal opinions as counsel .

some of them weren't even giving out wt society counsel- just personal opinions.

OnTheWayOut

I wanted to add this important thing that I learned, just in case some faders are reading:

Many (if not most) who wake up to the truth about "the truth" could just walk away from the Kingdom Hall all at once, "cold turkey."

I didn't do it either, but I wish I did. Many, even with children, will find that the kids hated it and will come around to appreciate Mom or Dad walking away and opening up alternatives. Many with family "in" can maintain their life of not openly defying Watchtower and its rules, and just walk out, to retain just as much family contact as a slow fader.

The sooner one gets away from the thought-control speeches, the sooner their head clears up and they start to figure out why they were depressed.

Oh, and this food for thought- there really is no difference between "inspired" and "spirit-directed." It is only used by Watchtower to allow them to change what they have proclaimed. Why would God inspire the correct understanding in the ancient past, but only spirit-direct those proclaiming His truth often with errors?

77

In The Name of Love, Need Your Opinion

by thankyou in

i'm non-jw.. been following this forum.

most of you folks have been through hell, but are still loving souls.

i'm reeeally impressed and glad to be here.. my question is at the end of this.

OnTheWayOut

I wanted to say, "Hurry and run back to the two more attractive girls as kinky threesomes are way better than the sex you would have with the JW girl."

But if I did, you would probably not take me seriously.

Seriously, your story has been repeated on here before by other men who have the hots for a JW girl. It is repeated so often that I thought I might have commented to you on this before, but I looked and it seems I did not. Don't get too worked up about a nice-dressing clean girl who seems pure to you. If she's not fully "out" of that religion, she will give you heartache and go back-and-forth.

See if you can't hook up with the attractive girls.

11

lets go surfing now everybodies learning how

by Sabin in

here is something that i don't get, the wtbts bangs on bout the value of life & how we shouldn't take chances with it cause it would be disrespectful to jah.

g. yeah, like parachuting/sky diving/speeding & all that.

however, they say naf all about surfing do they.

OnTheWayOut

"If you have time for the mall, you have time for the Hall."
"If you can go to the beach, you can go out and preach."
"If you can't pioneer, you can still volunteer."
"If you still take chances and surf, take no chances and bring your cart out on the turf."

2

This generation again on tv.jw.org with a guest role of teacher Splane

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

it seems there is still need to explain the this generation fable again, now by a helper of the teaching committee with of course a guest role of david splane, the teacher of the gb.. fun!

(and fellow jw's, do you get it now?!?).

http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodprogramsevents/pub-jwbmw_201511_3_video.

OnTheWayOut

I know nothing about this "helper" but he sure is kissing GB butt. He praises Spane's exSPLANE-ation and acts as if these guys have it all so wonderfully figured out.

17

HAPPY THANKSGIVING ERRRRRRRRRR BODY.!!!

by brandnew in

jw
friends

just wanna say.....im thankfull for y'all....n stuff

OnTheWayOut

I had to figure what "ERRRRRRRRRR BODY" was. Thanks.
Happy Thanksgiving to you, brandnew. And the same Happy Thanksgiving to "everybody" else here.

40

Reasons for doubting.

by New day in

somebody mentioned in a recent topic that they had a conversation with a former elder whose breaking point was when the overlapping generation was highlighted in recent times and how he would never serve again until somebody gave him a scriptural reason to believe it.

i am in a similar position.

i have gone in the last 18 months from taking the wt study, leading fs groups, and doing talks on the mtngs to doing almost nothing, as i resigned a little over a year ago as an elder due to a combination of family responsibilities and huge doubts.

OnTheWayOut

Good for you, New day. Resigning as an elder is probably psychologically tougher than just fading out for non-elders. The ones who do, typically are not caught up in the title, but want to do the right thing. And they notice that something is not "the right thing."

I left before the 2008 flip in definition of "generation" from "the wicked" to "the anointed." I swear that would have been enough for me to walk out had I not done so already. Even if I am wrong and would have stayed, I would have got up from my chair loudly laughing about "overlapping generation" during that WT study article and never walked back in.

The current money situation could have caused the same thing for me- they take all the money away from congregations and say they need it for the worldwide building projects, then they put all the worldwide building projects on hold because there isn't enough money. "Ha, they sure burned us there. Won't get fooled again, bye all." That would be my phrase as I headed out the door.

"Obey at all costs" might not have gotten to me, as it sounds like what they have always wanted even if they didn't form the words that way before. But I always thought I would examine everything for myself anyway, and would have ignored that request. My only problem doing that (and the same for many who stay) is that they think they are examining everything for themselves, but they exclusively (or nearly so) only use Watchtower materials and fall for the flawed logic.

Even their current explanation of "overlap generation" uses the short-lived idea of "wicked people" as "our" former belief, so that they can act as if they are so much more enlightened now, and if anyone wants to scoff at "overlap generation," they can say it's much "light-brighter" than what "we" used to believe. Thus they can ignore decades of believing in the "1914 Generation."

Anyway, good luck to you moving forward toward more freedom.