Posts by OnTheWayOut

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

OnTheWayOut

The Causer that caused the Space-Time Universe to exist must by necessity exist apart from space-time. Otherwise if he was part of the space-time system, then he would have had a beginning and would also have need of a cause.
Existing outside of the space-time universe solves the problem of needing a first-cause for our observable existence, while at the same time providing insight into the uniqueness of this first cause.

Believers make arbitrary rules that seem to make sense on the surface, then expand to say why God doesn't need to be part of the rules. I am sorry. If there are some universally accepted rules about this, they apply to a creator as well.

Because here's what I can do with your rules. The Matter Energy that became the stuff of this Space-Time Universe must by necessity exist apart from space-time. Otherwise if it (not "he" for it was not living in any way) was part of the space-time system, then it would have had a beginning and would also have need of a cause.

Existing outside of the space-time universe solves the problem of needing a first-cause for our observable existence, while at the same time providing insight into the uniqueness of this first cause. The stuff that created the universe came through a black hole. It existed outside of our space-time universe and none of our laws applied to it before it came through.

You see- I don't really believe what I just wrote above. But it can be made to sound equally as sound as "God existed outside of [whatever I need him to exist outside of to apply my rules.] Instead of God, we use matter/energy. Or we can go the opposite and keep finding a need for a creator of each creator.

OR we can start again. We are here, we don't know why. Let's explore as many options as we can to theorize how our universe began. But we won't get anywhere if we just insist that the book from the ancient goat herders, the one that justifies slavery and treating women as secondary citizens and has stories that clearly are wrong by the evidence, is the end-all of our exploration into the science.

Science doesn't care what Perry believes and facts don't line up for Perry's fairytale. I know, it's hard to accept. But I know you want us to keep telling you this. That's why you keep coming here for us to talk you down from that "leap of faith."

46

45 Minute Bethel Video about Changes (downsizing) at Watchtower

by OnTheWayOut in

i don't see this posted elsewhere, and i don't have the links besides this facebook one.. but here is a 45-minute long bethel talk about the changes at bethel including addressing the hard feelings of people who were given the axe.

basically, everything must change.

we gave remaining bethelites saturday off to do our bidding in "the field" and we give bethelites over 70 an extra day a week off (if you can find any such bethelites).

OnTheWayOut

Thanks, Bandit. I would appreciate that. My computer did not freeze up when I allowed their demon site to be linked on it.

sp74bb, you got that right.

46

45 Minute Bethel Video about Changes (downsizing) at Watchtower

by OnTheWayOut in

i don't see this posted elsewhere, and i don't have the links besides this facebook one.. but here is a 45-minute long bethel talk about the changes at bethel including addressing the hard feelings of people who were given the axe.

basically, everything must change.

we gave remaining bethelites saturday off to do our bidding in "the field" and we give bethelites over 70 an extra day a week off (if you can find any such bethelites).

OnTheWayOut

When we kick you out, you can still have the same great privileges of service (working for us for free in your local area, just without our room and board), you can still reach the same rewards. Shut up already.

91

My brother died last night

by LisaRose in

jw
friends

i found out this morning that my brother died last night, he was also an ex jw, 73 years old and died of heart disease and kidney failure.

it was not totally unexpected, as he had been in poor health, but it's a blow, especially as i just lost another brother two years ago.

there were six of us, now only four.

OnTheWayOut

So sorry to read your sad news. I lost my sister in December and the comfort from the folks at this forum helped me.

150

I'm getting baptized

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

OnTheWayOut

All this talk sickened me and I realized I can't go in like this, I have to be free and I can't be baptized!

YAY!!!!

It is hard to realize in a specific circumstance that strangers on the internet actually can help when it comes to this cult.

46

45 Minute Bethel Video about Changes (downsizing) at Watchtower

by OnTheWayOut in

i don't see this posted elsewhere, and i don't have the links besides this facebook one.. but here is a 45-minute long bethel talk about the changes at bethel including addressing the hard feelings of people who were given the axe.

basically, everything must change.

we gave remaining bethelites saturday off to do our bidding in "the field" and we give bethelites over 70 an extra day a week off (if you can find any such bethelites).

OnTheWayOut

I don't see this posted elsewhere, and I don't have the links besides this Facebook one.

IT APPEARS YOU MUST BE LOGGED IN TO FACEBOOK TO SEE THIS.

===========================================================
Edited after the fact to add- wifibandit offers another link, so I place it here:
http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODProgramsEvents/pub-jwbrd_201605_5_VIDEO

===========================================================
But here is a 45-minute long Bethel talk about the changes at Bethel including addressing the hard feelings of people who were given the axe.

Basically, everything must change. We gave remaining Bethelites Saturday off to do our bidding in "the field" and we give Bethelites over 70 an extra day a week off (if you can find any such Bethelites). So the rest of you should shut up and go home with our well wishes.

If anyone has posted this or can provide a better link, feel free to point it out.

https://www.facebook.com/libertarian.freedom.3/videos/811638678969102/

32

Suffering and existence of God

by elbib in

many people find it difficult to reconcile suffering and existence of god.

it seems they feel that it is god’s obligation to shield humans from ill-effects of their short-sighted acts..

people’s hobby has something to do with this kind of reasoning!

OnTheWayOut

Elbib: Even now we kill innocent species for our pleasure which only last for a second or two. When we ourselves support the concept of killing innocent living beings, is it proper to ask: Why doesn’t God put an end the death of children? Let us do what is within our power first, then question God.

I like the ridiculous fairy tale at the beginning of your comment (that I didn't bother to include in my quote). We started out as primitives and have advanced a little. We developed that nasty trait of killing for something other than food or protection.

As to the part I did quote, I can only say that your statements lead to the conclusion that God is no better than mankind. Many of us kill for sport or for selfish reasons, so we can't question God about it. Since God is an invention of man, I will agree.

But this is a nice try. Us humans did it first, the animals copied us. God lets us wallow in our choices. If only there weren't mountains of evidence against such a primitive belief. Just as some people have outgrown killing for sport, some have also outgrown your primitive belief position.

150

I'm getting baptized

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

OnTheWayOut

I want to say, It's not too late. There are ways out of this. You can "fail" the baptismal questions, but you would have to do pretty bad with your father being an elder. You could just stand up and say "I changed my mind." There are many ways to do that.

But it sounds like you are informing us and not asking for our thoughts. Maybe you should tell your long story about last year. Many will read it.

I think you stand a better chance with your JW parents as a never-baptized adult than as a faded JW. You will be able to get a complete set of friends when you get out into "the world." As a never-baptized adult, you wouldn't have to watch your back so much concerning who you date or marry, whether you participate in politics even as little as voting, sharing holidays and birthdays.

But you sound like your mind is made up. I can say that I am a faded JW and I get by. I don't tell my JW loved ones everything I do.

32

Suffering and existence of God

by elbib in

many people find it difficult to reconcile suffering and existence of god.

it seems they feel that it is god’s obligation to shield humans from ill-effects of their short-sighted acts..

people’s hobby has something to do with this kind of reasoning!

OnTheWayOut

It seems they feel that it is God’s obligation to shield humans from ill-effects of their short-sighted acts.

On the subject of natural disaster:

Not to start a flame that leads to a forest fire, but I have heard people say that it is the parents' short-sightedness that causes them to continue living in a tsunami-prone or earthquake-prone area, so why would God do anything to save their children?

To this type of thinking, I say that every place on earth is subject to some kind of disaster. And not all people can simply pick up and move away from "the coast" or the "the open plains" or "the mountain area." If people die in a blizzard, flood, tornado, tsunami, earthquake, mudslide, avalanche, lightning storm, yadda yadda, there can be pause to wonder what God had to do with it. Firm believers are confident that God had absolutely nothing to do with it, and that's fine. But when perhaps greater than 100,000 children are swept away in a tsunami, the simple question arises: If I had the power to prevent that, wouldn't I?

Should I just say that humans have short-sight by daring to live where it is possible for such tragedy to happen? Where should they live?

I could ponder that same inaction by God concerning children born with birth defects that cause great suffering. How dare those parents have children.

28

I cringe when I think about the talks I gave.

by James Mixon in

you brothers who gave talks do you thinks about the crap you spoke from the platform.. thirty years old, no knowledge what so ever of the world we live in, barely making the grade.

to graduate from high school, a year and half in jc college and now with schooling of jw higher.

education i thought i was a hell of a speaker.

OnTheWayOut

I must say I am right at home with this thread.
I developed 45-minute talks following the outlines tightly, but having done research on the individual points found within the outline or (more commonly) the Watchtower references until I was convinced that this is such obvious logic. As I look back, I used logic flaws like a madman.