OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Giles Gray, I think the answer has to do with "Dark Matter."

  Not the dark matter of the universe, which is still not understood, but the dark matter in Perry's brain that allows him to hold on to such nonsense that even most Christians don't buy it.
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  38

  Be careful what you wish for (in case you want to wake up your spouse)

  by nevaagain in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i want to spare you a long post about my background.

  because this topic is about something else.a small information is that i knew ttatt before i got married.

  but then i somehow pushed it back for quite some time because i didnt want to change my life and it was convenient to instantly meet new people when you move into a new city.couple of years into my marriage and seeing all the changes in the jw my thirst for ttatt resurfaced.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Many marriages end over the religion, some may end after both parties wake up and realize they only stayed together for the religion or because it was expected of them by friends and family.

  Still, I can't say that it would have been better for you to stay at the Kingdom Hall and stay silent, or fade out and say nothing at all about TTATT. A huge part of her problem with you was your discussing this in front of her parents. You may have been able to fade away quietly and make subtle attempts to free your wife.
  
  Or not....

  But I tell you what. I love my wife enough to continue to hope and continue to apply subtle attempts. Direct attempts have failed, so I have to be in for the long run. If it fails, it fails. If we divorce later because "the truth" is what kept her married to me, that's okay too. That would cost me financially, but that's okay. She deserves the truth about that religion and I hope she gets it.
  
  On the contrary side, my main connection to my continual marriage is money. Divorce would cause me to lose a part of my pension. My wife has the potential, but doesn't earn as much as I do. So if money were not an issue, if we could both have a comfortable living separately, I would probably deliver the ultimatum sooner or later- leave the religion or I leave. It's not that I don't love her enough to stick around, it's just that the religion can become a huge negative in the way of our happiness.
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  146

  Maybe I'm Just Ignorant About the New "Anti-Gay" Video

  by turtleturtle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  homophobia (m-w.com):.

  : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

  can someone tell me, specifically, was homophobic about the new "anti-gay" wt video.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Virtually all religions indoctrinate their children with such techniques, but they rarely put it in cartoon form.
  This is a conservative Christian religion that teaches hating those that live very contrary to their rules. Nothing new.

  I hate the video, it may be viewed as hate, maybe even by nations or courts. But it's just a cartoon of what most of these groups do with the kids to combat the enlightened attitude that is gaining momentum in the world.
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  13

  what more cuts might be in the pipeline

  by pepperheart in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there have been so many cuts in the past few years in the jw world what do you think might be next?

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  OnTheWayOut

  I really don't see these guys being internet evangelists with checks rolling in. To get members' money, they have to meet. I can see congregations becoming smaller due to attrition and people being told to go further to a hall and others being sold. I can see them abandoning Kingdom Halls sometime after that and trying to have regular/semi-regular meetings at assembly halls, sort of the mega-church atmosphere. But that's pretty far down the road, and they would really have to get money from those attending if they only come every once-in-a-while.

  Otherwise, they will pass on all the cost of printing to the locals eventually. They will not have to print as they can just carry a "device" with all they need on it.

  I see them selling their glorious new headquarters, but not for decades. I see them fading away, I also see it taking 80 years or so, but lawsuits and damaging news about pedophiles and cover ups can speed it up.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Here's my new answer from Buddhism about the beginning of the universe-

  One day a man called Malunkyaputta approached the Master and demanded that He explain the origin of the Universe to him. He even threatened to cease to be His follow if the Buddha's answer was not satisfactory. The Buddha calmly retorted that it was of no consequence to Him whether or not Malunkyaputta followed Him, because the Truth did not need anyone's support. Then the Buddha said that He would not go into a discussion of the origin of the Universe. To Him, gaining knowledge about such matters was a waste of time because a man's task was to liberate himself from the present, not the past or the future. To illustrate this, the Enlightened One related the parable of a man who was shot by a poisoned arrow. This foolish man refused to have the arrow removed until he found out all about the person who shot the arrow. By the time his attendants discovered these unnecessary details, the man was dead. Similarly, our immediate task is to attain Nibbana, not to worry about our beginnings.

  I appreciate that great minds are looking into the beginning (and the people Perry quotes from). But the arguments are never ending. The only reason I participate with Perry is because Perry wants to be convinced, hence his continous preoccupation.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

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  OnTheWayOut

  The universe had a beginning. You can't change that.
  Beginnings have causes. You can't change that either.

  Oh oh oh, I get it now. As long as the statement "The universe had a beginning" is accepted in science, you will say "Beginnings have causes, therefore God."
  

  If science proved the universe had no beginning, but was always there, you would say "If something has no beginning, then this makes it easier to understand that God can have no beginning."

  Perry takes the "God" road no matter what.
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  160

  Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

  whatever begins to exist had a cause.

  therefore the universe had a cause.

  1. 
  2. 
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  OnTheWayOut

  There's one thing for certain: There's no evidence of intelligence creating Perry's thought processes.

  If it is valid to say "Everything has a cause except God," it is more likely that everything has a cause except for the matter/energy of the universe. If God doesn't need a cause because it is infinite, it is more likely that the matter/energy of the universe has existed forever and therefore doesn't need a cause. Starting with the matter/energy being infinite, instead of God, makes fewer assumptions and causes fewer puzzles if you admit that you believe in one uncaused entity, and that entity is the universe itself or the matter/energy of said universe.
  
  We cannot fall back on "Were you there?" because that is true no matter what you believe. There are theories about the "cause" or "start" (almost meaningless terms in the science, but important in our limited philosophies) of the singularity that contained the stuff of our universe. Regardless of whether those are sound in our minds, the default answer "God did it" is the stuff of primitive man and we need to get past that.
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  46

  45 Minute Bethel Video about Changes (downsizing) at Watchtower

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't see this posted elsewhere, and i don't have the links besides this facebook one.. but here is a 45-minute long bethel talk about the changes at bethel including addressing the hard feelings of people who were given the axe.

  basically, everything must change.

  we gave remaining bethelites saturday off to do our bidding in "the field" and we give bethelites over 70 an extra day a week off (if you can find any such bethelites).

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  OnTheWayOut

  Page 5 replies:

  My Name, sparky1- thanks for pointing out the ultimate goal.

  Keyser soze, thanks for an alternative thought on goals.

  Pepperheart, they could replace it with one sentence. "Don't question, just obey."
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  150

  I'm getting baptized

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

  my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

  i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

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  OnTheWayOut

  While I like the thoughts of Slimboyfat on page 12, your family won't let you fade away without pressuring you toward baptism. They think they are literally saving you.

  You have already chosen a path of resistancecthat includes doubting the doctrines. Great. I like how Defender of Truth says it on page 13:

  "Generally speaking, be polite and respectful, and let HIM try to convince YOU. He won't be able to. He may even find that his reasoning comes up short.."

  You can brush up with people here and at jwfact.com. But don't be an expert like you have been reading outside materials. Simply end with how you just aren't sure enough to fully accept the things said.

  1914- the math of using 360-day years to apply a rule from various scriptures about a-day-for-a-year. Then they had to change the definition of "generation" to keep that date. That's as deep as you need to go to say, "I'm just not ready." Throw in, "How did you feel when they changed the meaning of generation?" If he gives you a standard statement of blind trust, just say how you are not there yet.

  You have done so well. Remember your ultimate goal is to keep these family members in your life and you will do fine.
  
  
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  150

  I'm getting baptized

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

  my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

  i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I am going to just repeat what Scully said.

  You broke the ice and were brave enough to start this conversation. You have to go back and have some more of that conversation. "Grandma planning to come isn't a reason for me to stop having the same problems that are holding me back......
  

  Am I old enough to get a driver's licence? No.

  Am I old enough to vote? No.

  Am I old enough to open a bank account without needing parents to co-sign? Probably not.

  Am I old enough to get married? No.

  Am I old enough to join the military? No. I haven't even registered for selective service yet.

  Am I old enough to sign a contract? No.

  I will be ready enough when I am ready enough."