My favorite part of a Christian creationist's argument is when they are so sure they found a reason that evolution cannot be true, therefore THE GOD OF THEIR UNDERSTANDING did it.
Not Thor or Allah or Jupiter or Ra or ....... but this is for sure- The Father of Jesus did it.
OnTheWayOut
JoinedPosts by OnTheWayOut
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29
[Generic evolution vs. creation thread]
by sir82 into save us all a lot of time and effort..... [some complex structure in living organisms described].
[i can't imagine how this could be the product of evolution].
[therefore god created it].
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OnTheWayOut
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29
[Generic evolution vs. creation thread]
by sir82 into save us all a lot of time and effort..... [some complex structure in living organisms described].
[i can't imagine how this could be the product of evolution].
[therefore god created it].
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OnTheWayOut
[I can't imagine how this could be the product of evolution]
Similarly:
[Even though I am not an astrophysicist or even have a master's degree, I read that stars and planets
were formed by dust and gas and I just cannot believe that. ]
Really, anything can go into the [I can't imagine] category for believers.
I'm not a doctor, I'm not a biologist, I'm not a chemist, I'm not an engineer, BUT MY LIMITED MIND ....... -
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The problem of sex (or why I'm not an atheist)
by EdenOne inas i write this under the shadow of the walls of saint jorge's castle in lisbon, two very bored jws are standing just five metres away from me with a literature cart .... in my journey away from jwism i accepted evolution as a fact.
i also became anti-religion, agnostic and apatheist.
and, while i lean towards the persuasion of the atheist arguments, there are a few reasons that make it difficult for me to completely discard the notion of an intelligent origin of life.
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OnTheWayOut
Nicolaou:
I didn't read the article so can't comment on it but my approach is very simple. Discard any argument that proposes god as an answer to complexity.
By invoking god you bring in the baggage of heaven, holy spirit, miracles and all manner of supernatural mumbo jumbo. Ridiculous.
A complex question isn't answered by raising a myriad of ever more hyper-complex ones.
From the linked article:
The evolution of sex (and its accompanying reproductive capability) is not a favorite topic of discussion in most evolutionary circles, because no matter how many theories evolutionists conjure up (and there are several), they still must surmount the enormous hurdle of explaining the origin of the first fully functional female and the first fully functional male necessary to begin the process. In his book, The Masterpiece of Nature: The Evolution of Genetics and Sexuality, Graham Bell described the dilemma in the following manner:
‘Sex is the queen of problems in evolutionary biology. Perhaps no other natural phenomenon has aroused so much interest; certainly none has sowed as much confusion. The insights of Darwin and Mendel, which have illuminated so many mysteries, have so far failed to shed more than a dim and wavering light on the central mystery of sexuality, emphasizing its obscurity by its very isolation.’[1]
So even if you are not invoking God, you are leaning toward not understanding something complex and opening a door for something more complex to be the answer. One enormous hurdle leads to putting up more hurdles.
That still falls back to "We can't explain, therefore- God."
We don't have all the answers about origins. We never will unless we could invent a time machine. Even if we produce life from nothing and cause it to evolve in a way that is similar to the path that earth took, it won't prove that things did happen that way.
But we've grown past ".....therefore- God." When we don't understand the proposed answers, we still have to deal with degrees of certainty and which explanations are most likely, most probable, most consistent with the reality we experience, and address the most issues of our understanding.
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"If the Earth were just a little bit further from or closer to the Sun, we would all freeze or burn"
by Island Man ini'm sure we've all heard this argument by theists employing the fine-tuning argument.
are you aware, however, of exactly how much this "little bit" really is?
theists would have us think that the slightest change in the distance would have drastic implications for survivability.
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OnTheWayOut
There are many factors that would make a planet or moon able to support life, but the most basic factor is the body having liquid water available.
The habitable zone is the orbital region around a star in which a body can possess liquid water on its surface and possibly support life. Liquid water is essential to all life on earth, so the definition of a habitable zone is based on the idea that extraterrestrial life would share that same requirement.
Distance from the star primarily determines the habitable zone, but there are other factors in having liquid water. The reflectivity of the planet or moon, its green-house gases, internal heat of the mass, volcanic activity- these are factors that increase the probability that liquid water may be present on the surface. It's also possible that liquid water is present in some subsurface way to allow for some kind of simple life. It is accepted that Jupiter's moon, Europa has a liquid ocean below the surface. So Europa may be outside of the scientific habitable zone, but it still might support life.
Life on earth is special. Being in the habitable zone and having a large moon and all kinds of other factors have aided in the existence of "Life as we know it." But life-as-we-don't-know-it may very well have evolved here if the factors were different.
Many scientists accept that the habitable zone for our sun, based on an earth-type planet with green house gases can be from 0.9 to 1.5 times the actual distance of earth to the sun. [1.5] is quite a bit.
The changing conditions of the star effect the zone too. Venus may well have been very "habitable" when the sun was younger and Mars (and other outer bodies) may be very "habitable" a few billion years from now as the sun gets older. -
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I need help, I'm falling in love with a JW girl
by nebula-- inso i met her at my last job that i worked & we started off as friends.
i didn't know her faith at the time & i honestly couldn't have cared less, seeing as i'm agnostic.
after about a year, i began developing emotions for her & sure enough, we ended up dating for a little while.
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OnTheWayOut
Seriously, the only way you should be with this girl is if she figures out ON HER OWN that the religion is a dangerous mind control cult. She has to leave it one way or another.
If she doesn't wholeheartedly figure that out and leave, you will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have turmoil with her going back to the JW's.
The fish and someone to hit you with it- that was about the best suggestion. Good luck putting this in your rear view mirror.
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The Atheist Delusion
by looter inatheist delusion.
just want to know what the ex jw community thinks about this video and also offer my pov.
the video was actually an advertisement on here.
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OnTheWayOut
They don’t want God to be true because they don’t want to submit themselves to any authority that would restrict their most cherished freedoms. Those who hold emotional objections to belief have usually been burned by believers and even Christians.
If your posted video uses that reasoning, there is no point in my viewing it. There are some in these categories, but that is like saying that fat people have glandular problems. Some do, but most need diet and exercise and shouldn't be misdiagnosed that way.
I will use my own example. I decided that Watchtoeer was a dangerous mind control cult, but figured that God still might be who the Bible said He was.
The thing is, I already learned how to stop using bias and to examine things properly. So, after learning about Watchtower, I continued to learn about Christianity, Judiasm, the Bible, past and present beliefs about gods and worship. I compared with science.
So let me lump believers like you into one category: It is very convenient for believers to just say non-believers are mad at God. That way, you can dismiss your cognitive dissonance about how they make valid points.
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Hello Everyone
by Mozzie inhoping this is the right section..... my story so far,,,.
hello everyone, i have been reading a lot on what most jws would say apostate websites, but i have been asking myself, how much of this s true and considering a lot of these are run by ex jw elders, bethalites and one who was with the gb at one stage, overseers and the like.
i was an unbaptized publisher many years ago but never got to the point of baptism as i fell into sin, that pretty much ended my attending meetings again.
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OnTheWayOut
...but just a note i am not looking to read books for self pity i have been reading a lot of books to help me see what the WT hasn't shown me in their articles.
Really, seriously- Read CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE by Raymond Franz.
Otherwise, stay with and care for your family while you work this out. Until you work it out, it would be unwise to do the wrong thing. If there is this loving "Jehovah" that they describe, He would understand that you want to do the right thing by your children and their mother. He wouldn't smite you for that.
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Got my JC cancelled... (at least for now)
by Sanchy inso my wife and i have been in the process of fading for a few months now as per my original post here.
about a week ago, i was browsing some ex-jw facebook groups when i saw a post that linked to the crisis of conscience book.
i said "f@(k it" and hit share on it.. a few hours later, i get a long text letter from my mom (who was a fb friend of mine) telling me the typical "good luck finding friends in the world" and how we have "nothing in common anymore"; basically, it was a 'farewell' text.
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OnTheWayOut
Now, something I did hear the brothers mention is that a JC does not necessarily mean expulsion, kinda hinting to me that an option would be to publicly reprove me.
You know already- you have to kiss their asses. You have to say "I was wrong to post that book, as I said, and upon further reflection, I was wrong to talk about leaving the organization. It is Jehovah's organization , it has the truth."
That's the only way you get out with reproof. You already know that. It doesn't matter that your thoughts are not a violation of the rules.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Propaganda & Hypocrisy Video
by Brokeback Watchtower ini didn't make this video it just showed up in my utube web page, god i love utube.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyv5lg1uh0o.
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OnTheWayOut
Excellent example of hypocrisy.
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Got my JC cancelled... (at least for now)
by Sanchy inso my wife and i have been in the process of fading for a few months now as per my original post here.
about a week ago, i was browsing some ex-jw facebook groups when i saw a post that linked to the crisis of conscience book.
i said "f@(k it" and hit share on it.. a few hours later, i get a long text letter from my mom (who was a fb friend of mine) telling me the typical "good luck finding friends in the world" and how we have "nothing in common anymore"; basically, it was a 'farewell' text.
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OnTheWayOut
When you said "F*ck it!" and posted CoC link, you knew there would be trouble.
I see a game going on here. Play with fire and you get burned.
It's too late to lie and say "It wasn't me." Just kiss their asses and say "I was intrigued by discovering that book. Now I know it's wrong. I pulled the link. (Do so right now if not already done.) Should I give you a rim job while kissing your asses?" Then know that you pulled the wool over their eyes enough to continue your fade.
Get a fake name for a facebook account for your non-JW life or don't have a facebook non-JW life.