ok, so my brother in law, a former elder, decided to grow a beard a while ago.
he initially grew it because he had a small rash he was trying to cover up, but that has since gone, and he has kept the beard.
he kept the beard because it made such a fuss that he decided if he shaved it off it would be like giving in to the brothers.
What did the elder book say?
I turned in my elder book just over a month ago. It says nothing about facial hair. It's not a complete rulebook. Generally, where I have been, a brother would be counseled over and over, and if he kept his beard, he would never have any cong. privileges. A Bible student would be expected to shave it off before baptism questions were covered- no room for wavering there.
It is antiquated rules that need to be changed.
as many of you know i`ve just got back to the board in the last little while..what did i learn yesterday?..the generation of 1914 means nothing..nothing!
!..back in the day,you could have been disfellowshipped for such a remark..disfellowshipped!
!..what did you think and how did you feel when you found out the generation of 1914,now means nothing?.....outlaw
Pre 1995:This Generation = Individuals alive in 1914
Pass Away = Die of old age
All these things = The entire sign including Armageddon
Put it all together and you get something like this:
"Those alive in 1914 will not all die of old age until the entire sign is fulfilled and Armageddon occurs."
However Post 1995:
This Generation = People contemporary with the sign who take no note
Pass Away = Destruction by God at Armageddon
All these things = The entire sign including Armageddon
Put this all together and you get something like this:
"Those contemporary with the sign who take no note will not be detroyed by God at Armageddon until the entire sign is fulfilled and Armageddon occurs."
--which is an obvious tautology. Of course no one will be destroyed at Armageddon until Armageddon occurs. The JW's have reduced the statement to a semantic nil while at the same time, patting themselves on the back for their "Clearer understanding."
I took this new light further in breakdowns to really make your point clear (I will use this with my CO)."Those [contemoprary with the sign who take no note] will not be detroyed by God at Armageddon until [the entire sign is fulfilled and ] Armageddon occurs."
The sentence can be simplified to say:
"Those people will not be destroyed by God at Armageddon until Armageddon occurs."
Utterly meaningless. Clearly, this is not something Jesus was trying to say. IOW- there will be people living in the time near the end until the end arrives. Semantic nil as TD brings out. (Sorry TD, your point was well made, but I, personally need to break things down for understanding, especially if I will use it in argument.)
who is the biggest villain in watchtower history?
let's have a poll.
here are the candidates with a few possible reasons for voting for each:.
jwfacts,
It would be hard for JWs to get your book, read it and deny reading it. They might get caught, so very few would buy it.
You are wise. An internet site, they could open, then easily never mention it or deny. More business that way.
You won't know your audience, but you can document the hits and sell advertisements.
While Ray Franz' book has been crucial to many, Randy Watters and some other have probably helped more
people to decide to get out. I found Ray's book thru freeminds.org.
But, in case there is a mass exodus, you can put all your stuff from your website into a book later
for the 6 to 10 million former witnesses to read (as well as family trying to help a witness leave).
who is the biggest villain in watchtower history?
let's have a poll.
here are the candidates with a few possible reasons for voting for each:.
dido Re: So Who is the Biggest Watchtower Villain? OTWO- he was only going to live the life style that millions of other jw`s had to, the way of life they told us was best, no material possesions, seek the kingdom etc., so shame he couldn`t live in his luxury pad and jet about, life`s a bitch!
TRUE, you convinced me. Still, I relate and I liked his book. I'm waiting for the second book to ship to a family member. I can't have it come home yet.
I'm sure Ray was being groomed to be president after Fred or after Milton. Difficult to let go. I'm sure there are others in the GB who hang on for the benefits, knowing they don't believe the crap. I guess that maybe 2 current GB members are totally sincere, thinking this is God's organization.
I always felt (as an active JW) that the Pope or Bishops and Priests should step down when they learned the truth about their own religion, yet I, myself waited (until I cleared the doubts- once I KNEW, I left). I could have stepped down with doubts and worked on the doubts. That would have been fair to the publishers. Ray Franz definitely knew things were wrong for years.
.
what is your opinion on it now that your out of the wts?
( or slowly kicking the habit... my sons school is having a "roll up your sleeve day" and give blood.....both boys and myself are going to donate tomorrow....they are both trying to reach a goal for the most donated blood in our county...i also am going to donate my time for the day and help hand out cookies and orange juice...... i feel good!!!!
IronClaw Re: Giving Blood? You know its a shame that witnesses will gladly accept blood fractions which come from DONATED blood, but won't donate blood themselves. How hypocritical.
Good point. Kinda like the old double standard for young men to get some experience and be real men,
but young women who give it are whores.
i had no idea there was such a strong support line for ex jehovah's witnesses.
i was raised from birth as a jw, son of the presiding overseer in my congregation.
i was groomed for "great works" according to the elders, and started giving my own talks at the age of 8. my father died when i was 9, and i think that if he hadn't i would still be a witness today.
WELCOME
Hope you find the answers to your questions and the support you may seek.
who is the biggest villain in watchtower history?
let's have a poll.
here are the candidates with a few possible reasons for voting for each:.
Dido, last post on this, don't want to apologize for / defend Ray Franz. I never even met him.
Income from a low paying job and a trailer to live in when you are facing middle age- compare that to one of the best apartments in Brooklyn and jetting all over the world.
He did make the wrong decision, granted. He could have come out younger, started helping people sooner, got income sooner.
But, hindsight is great. It was tough for him to leave then. I suggested that he looked out for Number 1, first. Not much of a hero.
Still, as soon as he got out, he was a great help.
I guess he was a villian/hero- kinda like Catwoman.
who is the biggest villain in watchtower history?
let's have a poll.
here are the candidates with a few possible reasons for voting for each:.
Oh, and he knew that exposing them would have minimal effect to save lives at first, since virtually none of the JW would read his book.
who is the biggest villain in watchtower history?
let's have a poll.
here are the candidates with a few possible reasons for voting for each:.
dido,
one thing i can`t understand about Ray Franz
I must say, I have done the same thing. I had doubts since 1995 and chose to be an elder again and try to alliviate those doubts. They kept growing until I had to go. He had more to lose than I do. He had no money, no pension, no social security. He gave his life to the borg.
Again, relating to Ray, I have no intention of trying to save people I know, other than family. I will keep my mouth shut in order to accomplish my goal, but if I get DF, like Ray, I will have nothing holding me back any longer. (But I won't need to write a book to get income.)
BTW, I was only kidding when I said he was my hero, but I do relate.
this is supposed to be an outline for a jw funeral talk.
i'm not sure if this has been posted before but i thought i'd post here for your viewing pleasure.
funeral discourse.
Yes, Mary, it is used as an opportunity by the borg to show the feelings of the deceased. It is a setting that nobody can argue during, as that is inappropriate. "The deceased learned this from the Bible... He/she was confident that God would resurrect..."
Many caring speakers who knew the person will stretch that personal part out, but still must explain to worldly people what the deceased believed, and why YOU SHOULD TOO.
