Posts by OnTheWayOut

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OnTheWayOut

Seriously, that was our actual conversation. It was a bit longer but I edited the rambling parts.

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OnTheWayOut

I worked a different shift. I knew the people I worked with, but not as well as I could have.

Anyway, religion comes up. One guy mentions in front of another that I wrote a book about my religious experience. The other guy (we will call him "Ignorance") wants to know what religion I was. I said I used to be a Jehovah's Witness and my wife still is one.

Ignorance: So you wore a white shirt and black tie and rode a bicycle?

OTWO: No, that's the Mormons.

Ignorance: What's the difference?

OTWO: Mormons teach that Jesus came to America after he was killed and the whole thing was supposedly revealed to Joseph Smith many hundreds of years later. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the end of the world is coming any minute now.

Ignorance: But the end of the world is coming soon. It's in the Bible.

OTWO: Really, where?

Ignorance: I don't know, but I hear it's in there somewhere. So you used to be a Jehovah's Witness. So do they believe the Bible?

OTWO: Yes, they are pretty literal about the Bible and follow it. They think that much of the Bible pointed to their religion returning true worship on the earth in the 20th century before the end of the world.

Ignorance: Well, so you don't think the end of the world is coming?

OTWO: No. People have been saying the end is coming for as long as religion existed, Christians have been saying it for 2000 years.

Ignorance: But you do believe in God, don't you?

OTWO: No, not anymore. I reviewed the Bible and other religions and all the gods were invented by men.

Ignorance: How can you say that? The Bible has been proven to be right?

OTWO: What part is proven?

Ignorance: I don't know. But it has.

OTWO: So you just take someone else's word for it. If it's true, you should be reading it and know what it says.

Ignorance: That's for the preachers to do. But I know God exists. And the Bible is true.

OTWO: So it couldn't be some other Holy books that are true? It's got to be the Bible?

Ignorance: Well, God speaks truth to different people different ways. But science knows Jesus was real.

OTWO: How so?

Ignorance: I don't know, but the preachers say that's true and I know it's true. Plus, people need God or else they have no morals. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

OTWO: WTF? (From now on, I will say "Watch Tower Farms" when I want to say WTF.) Why would I kill you for what advantage?

Ignorance: If I had something you wanted and we were alone, wouldn't you as an atheist simply follow logic and kill me and take it?

OTWO: No. But I see that you automatically assume that I have no morals since I don't believe in God. Is that right?

Ignorance: Well, yeah. You have no belief in heaven and hell, so you can do what you want. You don't accept the rules in the Bible, so you feel free to do what you want.

OTWO: I have morals. I want to do what is right. You don't even know the Bible and you tell me that I won't follow the rules in it. Do you know the rules?

Ignorance: Yeah, pretty much. I don't have to know all the rules because I know Jesus forgives me.

OTWO: So are you a literal follower of the Bible?

Ignorance: What do you mean?

OTWO: Did mankind just start out in the Garden of Eden less than 6100 years ago?

Ignorance: No, then I am not a literal follower. When King James wrote the Bible from the Greek, the 6 days had meant something longer but was translated that way. It's just stories to teach us. It is not literal.

OTWO: Watch Tower Farms......are you talking about? The first part of the Bible, the Old Testament, was written in Hebrew. While you may have something there about misunderstanding the original intent of the writings, I want to know where I should draw the line. What's literal in the Bible? What's a story?

Ignorance: Just about all of it is stories until Jesus.

OTWO: So was there Noah and a flood, or a King David? Were the Jews slaves in Egypt?

Ignorance: I don't know. No matter how many times you ask, I don't really know. I guess not if they are stories.

OTWO: And what does Jesus forgive you for?

Ignorance: My sins.

OTWO: And are those sins you inherited from Adam and Eve?

Ignorance: No, that's just a story to say we need to follow the rules in the Bible.

OTWO: I think we've gone full circle now.

Ignorance: If your wife is still a Jehovah's Witness, shouldn't she divorce you for leaving?

OTWO: You need to read those rules. God hates divorce.

Ignorance: Yeah, but Jesus forgives you for it. Maybe you should leave your wife and start having fun.

OTWO: And you accuse me of having no morals. I am getting off this merry-go-round.

5

guy says he's not guilty of murder because victim refused blood transfusion that could've saved him

by Question_Mans_interpretation in

i wonder if the guy will get off the hook for murder since the jw died during surgery that he refused blood for.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2015/05/15/4526968/did-fresno-shooting-victims-religious.html.

OnTheWayOut

I have always had a problem with intent and results. Someone is charged with "attempted murder" because paramedics arrive quickly or because the object in their pocket slowed the bullet. Someone else is charged with murder when they kick someone's ass but they had a weak heart, and died.

To me, intent is just as important as what happened. I could say, in this case, that the intent was clear because several shots were fired. I could say, as a juror that the blood transfusion thing is not really an issue. If the JW had not been shot, the blood issue would be no issue at all.

I could factor it in for unintentional manslaughter, but not intentional shooting, especially mutliple shots fired.

But it is part of how the system works here in the USA. Who is to say if it won't get him a lighter sentence? It's up to some prosecutor and the law to not give the jury a choice. A choice between guilt and innocence instead of degrees of guilt should result in a "GUILTY."

11

Did I miss something?

by StarTrekAngel in

so sat thru yet another "new light" session this past sunday.

as you may already know, it is a continuation of the previous study.

you know the speech... no more type/anti-type.

OnTheWayOut

I don't keep up with "the chariot." It sounds like they realize that they have no oracle like Freddy Franz and many of their instructions to the members won't sound like they are coming from the Bible pointing to the 21st Century "slave" so they are getting further along in just abandoning Bible application and just sticking to the basics about "listen and obey." ....oh yeah, ".....and be blessed."

They aren't going to try to make parables fit their ever-changing doctrines. They just aren't smart enough.

36

How long until the "Generation" gets Revised/Dropped?

by Lemonp in

if you don't already know this; the latest revision of the insight book has no mention of the "overlapping generation" bs online library, insight book .

obviously that change will not bee seen by the vast majority of people, so when will this "brighter light" shine through in a wt or assembly talk?

predictions?.

OnTheWayOut

"In some way"??? WTF does that mean?

Today it means if they are the anointed now who were alive before the other anointed died, their lives are a measurement of how close the tribulation and Armageddon are.

Next year, it means something completely different.

36

How long until the "Generation" gets Revised/Dropped?

by Lemonp in

if you don't already know this; the latest revision of the insight book has no mention of the "overlapping generation" bs online library, insight book .

obviously that change will not bee seen by the vast majority of people, so when will this "brighter light" shine through in a wt or assembly talk?

predictions?.

OnTheWayOut

Even the people who created "overlapping generation" cannot take it seriously enough to make it an official entry in their "encyclopedia" of Watchtower doctrines.

57

40 years on - and still in Damage Control mode!

by Bungi Bill in

earlier this morning, i posted off to the the institute of engineers an application for membership as an "engineering associate":.

- today being just over 40 years since the congregation's retards elders made me abandon my apprenticeship.. (in this part of the world, the pre-1975 hype was taken to that level.

not being content to prevent young persons attending university, they went one step further and treated with hostility any youngster who would "tie up five years of their lives" by entering into an apprenticeship.

OnTheWayOut

A wish of continued good luck in your endeavors. Congratulations on the diploma.

71

A big hello and thank you

by iwasblind in

i just wanted to introduce myself and say a big hello to all of my mentally diseased friends.. i say friends because i have been lurking for some time so it feels like home (us lurkers are a bit scared and cautious so it takes a while).

i won't bore you with too many details, but i am a born in, currently serving as the cobe of a congregation.

my wife and i have pioneered for the last 10 years and were shaken awake by that ridiculous 15th july 2013 wt about the generation and 1914.. my wife who is much smarter than me has questioned for years.

OnTheWayOut

Welcome to the forum. Welcome to the rest of your life. Please get outta there and enjoy it.

22

Introducing myself

by Bill Covert in

it was suggested that i do a post of introducing myself rather than just starting to do posting.

i am one of those viet nam war felons who had to refuse community service in lieu of military induction per direct instructions of wbts.

my mother was from a old time jw family in the calif. bay area the "garigs".

OnTheWayOut

Planning on going to Flippers Apostate Fest and meeting some of you folks

Awesome. See ya there.

Thanks for your honest story here.

28

Today my son told me that he can't stand this religion

by hardtobeme in

jw
friends

i have talked to him ttat.

and he understands.

he doesn't wanna be a jw.

OnTheWayOut

Regarding education, my wife and I agree that they need to go to college. I told her that I have wasted a lot of years cause Armageddon was just around the corner since 1992 when the old generation was supposed to pass in 1995.

Wrong. That's just for you. Actually, Armageddon has been around the corner much much longer. But I get what you mean.

I want to give the hard answers here. If I had a young young son and daughter (I missed your daughter's age and current situation), I would probably DA myself to make sure they were raised free to share everything at school and be "normal." If I had a son and daughter not quite so young when I figured out that JW's are not "the truth," many factors would depend on them. I would want them to feel free to participate in normal activities, go to parties, go on dates as a teenager, play sports or be in the orchestra (or both), YADDA YADDA YADDA. I would ask them to do normal things and not brag to the JW's about it.

If my kids could keep it quiet that they know "it's not the truth," then for the sake of Mom or Grandma or whoever, I would try to ask them to do their homework at the Kingdom Hall and stop being "publishers" and just keep quiet until Dad figures out how to remove the family from the Kingdom Hall. (A matter of months to a year, not indefinitely.) Really, I would go that far. They should not be expected to carry a lie so far as to do the recruiting and giving talks at the hall. I know that would mean Dad would lose privileges. SO FRIGGIN' WHAT? It's their lives and happiness I am talking about. Besides, I would start missing meetings and skipping JW stuff and begin to disappear from the active JW scene. So privileges would be a burden anyway.

If my kids could just play the weak JW kids card okay, that's what I would do.

If they can't keep quiet, then I would still DA for their sake, same as with the young young kids. Either way, I would let my kids know that I unconditionally love them and want what's best for them.