We could also say that facts don't care what you believe. And "you" can include people like Darwin, who had less facts and data available to him at the time.
OnTheWayOut
JoinedPosts by OnTheWayOut
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26
Charles Darwin was not an Atheist
by LAWHFol inpersonally i have the same viewpoint of darwin, when he said : " the safest conclusion seems to me to be that the whole subject is beyond the scope of man's intellect".
i'm not trying to convince anyone about the existence or non existence of god.. rather, i encourage everyone to keep seeking.
keep searching for the truth that makes the most sense to them.. darwin is the grand father of evolution, and his findings and life work, did not make of him an atheist.
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What are the biggest holes in evolution?
by shadow inhow honest are the proponents of evolution?
idk but curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?
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OnTheWayOut
Oh, it's every living thing ON THIS PLANET. It could have happened independently elsewhere in the big wide universe. -
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What are the biggest holes in evolution?
by shadow inhow honest are the proponents of evolution?
idk but curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?
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OnTheWayOut
Every living thing evolved from a common ancestor over millions of years.
That's plenty enough to fill holes. When evolution was theorized, they didn't even know about DNA. The "hole" may be where people who want evolution to be wrong cling to old details of the theory. They break out ON THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES or refer to books/videos/articles that are old.
We are in the infancy of understanding many aspects of our world and our universe. If we keep questioning and accept the facts such as Cofty's assertion above, regardless of what preconceptions we have to discard, we will fill the holes.
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44 years old and having I.V.F help to have a baby thanks too bastard "this Generation" lies!! Wife wants kids in 2016! My story.
by Witness 007 inas a young witness married couple in the 1990's we knew "this generation" of 1914 did not have long to go!
oh how cute a young pioneer couple we were.
we wont have kids till "afew more years pass" and we are in the new system.
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OnTheWayOut
Hey, my wife and I decided to "obey" and not have kids so close to the end.
She wavered a little bit closing in on her biological clock, but I was awake to TTATT by then.
Now I am glad, as she is still in the cult. I would have done everything necessary to bust them outta that and that would have made all parties feel bad.
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44 years old and having I.V.F help to have a baby thanks too bastard "this Generation" lies!! Wife wants kids in 2016! My story.
by Witness 007 inas a young witness married couple in the 1990's we knew "this generation" of 1914 did not have long to go!
oh how cute a young pioneer couple we were.
we wont have kids till "afew more years pass" and we are in the new system.
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OnTheWayOut
Vent it here, but try to have, as The Searcher said, the greatest joy and happiness. Good luck to you. -
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What's next?
by Grey Goose inhi everyone.. thanks for the welcome a few days ago, it was nice to hear your support.. this is a pure speculation thread, but what do you think the next changes are going to be?.
will we see tything come into play?.
more evangelical style meetings?.
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OnTheWayOut
Watchtower has never managed as well as Latter Day Saints (Mormons) to appear mainstream. And you gotta hand it to them with their bicycle preachers and magic underwear.
I see Watchtower going more the way of Scientology- pretending to have a huge membership, but really being a real estate holding company with enough assets for the current leadership to stay in ivory towers.
Kingdom Halls will slowly be sold off as membership dwindles. There will be more streaming videos to reach members who don't drive across the county to the nearest K.H. and Watchtower will offer for them to make monetary donations to make up for their lack of physical presence. Print will be a thing of the past.
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Another Galling Meeting!
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inyesterday's meeting was again, quite soporific.
however, i felt indignation when it came to paragraph 16 of the watchtower catechism.
it reads..."the remarkable growth that we see today is the result of our faith in god and full acceptance of the bible..."i won't deal with the first part of that sentence here, but the claim at the end - this is just an outright and most egregious lie!
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OnTheWayOut
"One Hundred Years Under Kingdom Rulership!"
Ha, only in dangerous mind control cults.
"The end didn't come yet." SO MORE OF YOU CAN BE SAVED. YOUR PRAYERS FOR MORE TIME HAVE BEEN HEARD.
"Adjustments in understanding." SPIRIT-DIRECTED INSTEAD OF INSPIRED. WE WERE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT, BUT WE ARE RIGHT RIGHT NOW.
"What is asked of us is foolish." OBEY NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY AND YOU WILL BE BLESSED. PRETEND WE WERE NEVER WRONG BECAUSE WE ARE PROBABLY RIGHT ON THIS.
"One hundred years under kingdom rulership." SO IT MUST BE IMMINENT THAT WE GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME.
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The GB know it's all lies and wants to dismantle the WTS ... then what?
by Simon inso imagine the gb have a sudden attack of honesty and realize "crap, this whole thing is lies - we're not god's spokespeople at all !".
how do you dismantle a religion that has +8 million members in a responsible way?
you can't just publish a watchtower saying "we were wrong" because that would be irresponsible - you need to let people down gently, put people off gradually.
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OnTheWayOut
The idea is a bit broad. I mean, we would have to know if the entire G.B. was ready to admit it's all crap, and how far they go in this realization- just the cult itself, or maybe they realize that the Bible and Christianity are crap, or that Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as real as the God of men's creation.
But anyway, assuming there wouldn't be a coup (and there would be), I would say that the G.B. would have to lighten up on things quickly. Get that majority vote to stop shunning- have articles about no longer shunning. Immediately lift the blood ban and encourage closeness with non-JW family. Tell members that birthdays are okay, college is good. They could say that Watchtower is no longer going to insist on blind obedience to standards, but that every "Christian" must decide for themselves whether they will celebrate holidays, vote, get a tattoo, join the military, carry a gun, YADDA YADDA YADDA.
If they are sincere and trying to dismantle things but avoid humongous lawsuits, they can say how there is already enough money at HQ and because of the economy, will ask that no more funds be sent to the Worldwide fund. They can say they are going to have one more round of conventions this summer to announce major discoveries and simply tell people on the first day, "GO OUTSIDE, ENJOY THE DAY, STOP BOTHERING PEOPLE WITH WATCHTOWERS, GET OUTTA HERE."
The coups will be big. Maybe they can address that.
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The Demons were messing with me last night!
by olongapo joe inso said my pops one morning.
we were visiting my sister in eastern tennessee and the night before after everyone else went to bed pops was watching tv when all of a sudden and completely on it's own the tv changed to the tonight show, holy smokes!!
must be demons cause pops didn't change it!
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OnTheWayOut
Televisions respond to electronic signals in the air. Strange things can happen without demons.
You figured out the wind chimes. It's a shame people default to such an extreme explanation.Watchtower doesn't help. It feeds such feelings.
It's not just demons. We've had people on this forum that allow their own coincidences/problems/beliefs/possible mental illness develop into a whole belief system where God or the angels are talking to them.
Science does understand the causes of hearing voices, vibrations do sometimes cause wind chimes to chime without wind, electronic devices can have glitches for all kinds of reasons, strange coincidences do happen.
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Who can you trust to admit you have doubts?
by MrMonroe in(that is, doubts).
in margaret atwood's "the handmaid's tale", a futuristic story of life inside a repressive, abusive big brother-style society tightly controlled by religious fundamentalists, there's a passage in which the protagonist is alone with another woman at a state-controlled centre where prayers are generated -- then printed out and read out -- by a machine.
the other woman asks, in barely more than a whisper, "do you think god listens to these machines?
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OnTheWayOut
I felt out the reactions to some questions I had. I did this with my JW wife, mother, best friend, others.
In the end, they all remained loyal to the organization and made it clear that I could not trust them with enough of my discoveries for them to use against me. Well, my wife and my mother slowly morphed into making my differences with the organization my business and simply wanted to avoid being spies for the JW's. Despite that, I only go so far with what I say.
My best friend stopped me from saying anything he could use against me. I suppose that's good. But then he got out of my life. My in-law family treat me fine, but never ask anything JW-related.
It is very hard to know who you can say things to. You want to help them out. In the end, I think leaving, be it fading or otherwise, speaks more to them than anything you might try to convey through logic.