Posts by OnTheWayOut

23

Faith and Lies.

by sparrowdown in

if you were hooked up to a polygraph machine when you were still an asleep, kool-aid drinking dub and asked if you agree 100% with every single wt teaching (asked as individual questions and collectively), would you have "passed" with no signs of deception?.

i know, i definitely would not have "passed" such an interegation.

i would have tripped up on questions about blood, dfing and non jws being marked for destruction just to name a few.

OnTheWayOut

OnTheWayOut - You make a good case for the cumulative effect personal doubt can have on someones belief sysyem. If I ever chat with a JW now I try and ask questions that will cause them to reflect on their own personal doubts rather than tell them what mine are, which I think is a mistake I made early on in my waking up journey. Thanks for the input.

You are welcome. I have little else left except the cumulative effect with my JW loved ones. It won't necessarily work because they go back to their JW speeches and literature and strengthen the cult thoughts that were weakened. But you might get past that to something that sticks with them.

4

Spring has sprung!

by GrreatTeacher in

though not officially spring, the past two days in the mid-atlantic have been gorgeous!

it's been over 70°f and sunny.

i've opened all the windows in the house and have sunshine and fresh air pouring in.. i walked outside today and noticed that my tulips are pushing through the ground.

OnTheWayOut

It will go back-and-forth in northern Illinois, but it has been much warmer. Time to put the soft top back on the wrangler.

27

I dont know how i can leave my family!

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

my mom and i were talking today about how next summer i will be 18 and she said that just thinking about it might make her cry.

that made me think about how much more it would hurt her if i quit being a jw.

i really do love my parents, i know they are just being cruelly manipulated by a cult and that they really think they are doing what is best for me.

OnTheWayOut

Nobody should expect you to live a lie. If you want to try to leave without exposing any life choices that violate JW rules, it is a tough choice but not impossible. You can just not discuss JW issues after you leave. You can hide your sex life from your family, along with other things.

I don't automatically recommend this, but it is better to try this than to remain a JW for others. Moving far away might help.

Otherwise, the truer to youself you strive to live, the more at peace with yourself you can be. It is sad that this can make you risk family ties, but you may have to do that.

23

Faith and Lies.

by sparrowdown in

if you were hooked up to a polygraph machine when you were still an asleep, kool-aid drinking dub and asked if you agree 100% with every single wt teaching (asked as individual questions and collectively), would you have "passed" with no signs of deception?.

i know, i definitely would not have "passed" such an interegation.

i would have tripped up on questions about blood, dfing and non jws being marked for destruction just to name a few.

OnTheWayOut

I converted to JW as a young adult in his 20's, but was exposed to it from a JW mother while growing up. It is the only religion I knew. Dramatic circumstances in my life allowed me to completely embrace the JW lifestyle and doctrines. There was a chance of me waking up early as a study when I accompanied the brother studying with me on a call. The guy asked about storing up your own blood for a surgery and I could see nothing wrong with that, but then the elder tore into it about how you would have to obey the scriptures that say to pour it on the ground. I questioned him later about the literalness of that and trying to compare it to allowing your blood to be drawn for testing purposes. I wasn't quite satisfied with the answers, but I learned to stuff my problems down deep.

For the first 7 years I was in deep, never questioning anything the society said. Then 1995 came. Some serious pioneers who read ahead in the magazines and break out all the references asked me about that major change to "generation." I was a brand new elder and I had to break out all the stuff, because I hadn't been doing all that. I was rather disturbed by the change. I asked other elders about it and one comment sticks out from a much older brother. "They change things sometimes."

So my disagreement with them started growing. Before that, I already realized the double standard of getting connected people/families out of trouble where others wouldn't get the same. I already was telling people not to tell the elders everything, even though I was an elder, but to stop doing whatever and pray to Jehovah.

So 8 years in, I would not have passed the polygraph. And it got worse each and every year after that.

What it could say about you is that you were fully believing that you must check it out for yourself and verify truth vs. lies. It's what the Bereans were told. You were not just going with blind obedience. But being in a deceptive mind-control cult, it was sometimes difficult to know what to do, what to believe.

18

Partaking of emblems

by sloppyjoe2 in

jw
friends

this year will be my first for by going to the memorial.

i will get asked by my parents how i can deny jesus even if i don't believe the end is close.

my thoughts on this are as follows, bear in mind saying it's all make believe is not an option.. i think that jesus intended for everyone to eat the bread and drink the wine.

OnTheWayOut

Any argument that includes "...so I am not going" leaves room for JW's to argue about it.

All they know is that you have to go, you have to go, you have to go. Countering with anything whatsoever makes no sense to them. So throw out your excuse and be done.

I thought I might get invited this year, as they are supposed to make some huge effort to invite former attendees back. (I am not DF'ed or DA'ed, just totally inactive.)

Well, so far I have not been invited. GOOD. No need for an excuse.

But if I do need an excuse, while it is not true I will say it anyway:
"What day? Oh, you all should have let me know sooner. I can't go. I have tickets for an AC/DC concert that evening. If only you had invited me sooner."

(Actually, JRK and I are going the Sunday before the Memorial, but they don't need to know that.)

See, it just doesn't matter what excuse you give them. It won't be good enough anyway.

36

The "most honest people" on earth....?

by stuckinarut2 in

have we noticed how often the society uses comments like this?.

"jehovah's witnesses are the most honest people...etc".

while it may be true that witnesses as a whole are decent, law abiding people, are they truely "honest" when the very foundation of beliefs are based on mistruths?.

OnTheWayOut

I think JW's are honest like slick lawyers are honest. They learn to withhold information and mislead people, but define "honest" as not directly telling a lie. Then they make exceptions to even that definition by making decisions about who deserves truthful information.

10

The Accounts Report or lack of one

by OnTheWayOut in

i am pretty sure it's still the same since i stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:.

at the kingdom hall, there's an accounts report.

they say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

Dark Knight, there were different deals in different places. But places with lots had parking included in the price. Other places had city garages that were not included in the price. But as a victim myself, I know that if Watchtower "sold" you a parking ticket for all three days, they were taking advantage of you at a set price for what was included at no cost for you. It's a famous scam from Tacoma that they got busted for doing because their contract said they could not charge for parking, but I was a victim in another place where it was never mentioned that the parking was included in the facility rental fee.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/66723/tacoma-dome-parking-scandal?page=1

Landy, I realize that kids didn't contribute, or didn't contribute much. Still, $80,000 seems kind of low unless it goes back to early 1980's or so. The point of this thread is that we really have no idea what they rake in at the "regional" level at all.

A big help here would be to know how ruthless Watchtower becomes in dealing with city officials trying to win their conventions to their arenas. Kickbacks and promises, demands for cooperation, stuff like that.

62

What Happens To You When You Die?

by minimus in

jw
friends

are our dead loved ones watching over us at all or are they really just gone now?

OnTheWayOut

As far as I know, no credible sources have verified anything to the living about what happens when we die.

No credible evidence that dead ones help or hurt living people. No credible evidence that there is an afterlife at all.

Even for those who are sure that there is a "God," there's no credible evidence that he expects something of us in life so that we can have a reward or avoid punishment in an afterlife. No credible evidence of contact with the living at all from the dead or from God or any source.

SO LIVE, DAMMIT!!! LIVE! Don't worry about what happens later. As far as I know, I will be gone.

10

The Accounts Report or lack of one

by OnTheWayOut in

i am pretty sure it's still the same since i stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:.

at the kingdom hall, there's an accounts report.

they say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

Beth Sarim, you probably mean it's disturbing to them. Thanks.

xelder, thanks. That seems low. Even $20 a head would be $100000. Even a long time ago, Bakersfield should have been hauling in more. Maybe it was the free aspect that changed things. And they had the old parking scam- charge them ahead of time to park in a free lot.

10

The Accounts Report or lack of one

by OnTheWayOut in

i am pretty sure it's still the same since i stopped attending almost 10 years ago, but this is something to think about:.

at the kingdom hall, there's an accounts report.

they say they gathered in an exact amount of money for both local expenses and worldwide work and that it exactly went to these exact expenses and this amount was sent to watchtower.

OnTheWayOut

The Listener, that is valuable info. They are careful and guarded. What I am wondering about is the total amount for such events and who know that. Even you don't remember, which suggests to me that you probably were not officially supposed to know.

D.O.C., they are putting themselves into a corner as far as money goes. They squeeze the main contributors so much that the contributors stop giving. Even if they do give more in one place, say at the Circuit Assembly, then they give less at the other places- the Kingdom Hall and the Regional Convention. Glad to hear of ones you know who are figuring it out.

Freeandclear, it seems that Watchtower doesn't even trust Jehovah to make sure it works out.