OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  31

  Do you know what Rahab looked like?

  by ttdtt in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello friends - here is a new area in the kids section of the jw website - learn how to draw rahab.. 1st - she was a prostitute of jericho.

  could there be other characters to talk about with our kids?.

  2nd - it says "learn how to draw rahab".

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  OnTheWayOut

  Don't forget to teach the kids how to draw Mohammed.

  
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  9

  J Dubble Ya Broadcasting

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do you think the corporation will take this?.

  will it totally replace speakers at the meetings?.

  y'know, that kind of thing..... .

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  OnTheWayOut

  Many are quick to say NO. I don't know, I could see each governing body member on a rotating basis being recorded with a public talk. That way, they wouldn't have to worry about elders straying from the outline and it would be such a personality cult for the G.B..

  I mean really, each G.B. member could make 6 videos in one day and be done for the year making public talks.
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  3

  Scientology, FLDS, jws what's the difference?

  by Ghiagirl in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i feel a little better i didn't believe in polygamy or that a volcano erupted and we flew out of them and came down to the earth or whatever scientologists believe.

  but at the same time all 3 groups have the same cult qualities.

  anyone who doesn't believe is called an apostate, members get shunned whether it's disfellowshipping or disconnecting.

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  OnTheWayOut

  There's a world of difference but it is all so trivial. From what I read, JW's are almost a cult-light in comparison to the others, certainly compared to the fringe Mormon groups that still support polygamy.
  
  JW's don't really have any splinter groups anymore. The Watchtower outlasted them for the most part. But it never managed to be viewed as much "mainstream" as the Mormons. I think the difference is that they encourage college and personal success and they do the big Tabernacle Choir at Christmas.

  I was already good at research and searching WT publications and the internet for information when I went to the pioneer school. I also knew I wasn't going to keep going on as a pioneer when I went, so I could see the general thoughts from the homework and I didn't lose any sleep over it.
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  17

  Question: refuse, or limit to collaborate with elder inquiry?

  by prologos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  should a teen, a child of a believing mother, cooperate in the fact-gathering of the elders into the waywardness (not sex related, hopefully) of some local teenagers?

  what scenarios can you see playing out?

  all teens to clam up?

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  OnTheWayOut

  Even when I was an elder, I told members that they didn't need to tell the elders everything, but they could work out many of their problems and pray over the matters.

  Now that I see what a dangerous mind-control cult it is, and know that people of the religion will throw people under the bus to save themselves, I say more strongly to "Work out your own problems and have nothing to do with confessing, interrogations, spying for the elders or reporting things to them."

  Go directly to the people involved or the authorities.
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  31

  A poll of sorts: How long have you been a "fader" for?

  by SecretSlaveClass in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm curious about the following:.

  1) how long have you been a fader for?.

  2) how often do you still get pressure from congregation members and/or family to return as an active witness?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  1) How long have you been a fader for?

  Coming up on 10 years of fading. I resigned as an elder in August 2006.

  2) How often do you still get pressure from congregation members and/or family to return as an active witness?

  I recently attended my sister's funeral and my JW mother's congregation members did try to say things about getting me activated again. So it comes up from time-to-time. But my own congregation, the elders I served with- They gave up after the first year or so. I was kind of a bully toward them and it worked to keep them away.

  3) What is the longest period you have ever known anyone to successfully fade? A successful fade in my view, would be someone who has faded for a period of time but no longer receives any pressure to return to active service (completely left alone).

  I have no clue about "completely left alone." I suppose there are many whose family are weak JW's but afraid to stop attending and there are those that don't interact at all with the JW's. While I am not COMPLETELY left alone, it's close enough.
  
  

  4) If you have been a fader for more than two years, do you fear you would eventually have to face DA or DF?

  It is a real thing. Do not assume a fader is ever clear of that. If my congregation elders heard a thing about me that could get me into the judicial committee, I assume they would love to do it. But it is not something that I fear. If it cannot be avoided, I would be okay.

  5) As faders, how many of you are being treated as if you were DF'd/DA'd?

  Some of my wife's friends cross my path occasionally and my mother's congregation members cross my path a wee bit more. They are cordial and polite. But at the same time, I used to be waiting out in the car for my wife to come out from the Kingdom Hall and people I knew for years would walk right by me and pretend (poorly) that they don't see me. So there's a mix.

  6) Have you faded rather than DA'd due to the possible loss family or is it because you have no network of friends outside the Org?

  I would tell most that fading is to keep family contact. If you keep friends, those friends are likely faders or barely JW's themselves. Develop outside friends and, as dear as your friends seem to be, prepare to lose them so you can be more free to be yourself. Typically, only family would put up with a totally inactive member.

  7) If you consider yourself a fader how many meetings/assemblies/ field service groups do you still attend on average per month?

  Absolutely none. I went to the Memorial one year after fading and never again. I went to a couple of funerals at the hall years ago, but the last one I went to was my aunt's. I think it is important for my peace of mind to be out of there. But for good reasons, I am not afraid to attend a funeral. But it would have to be good reason, not just someone I knew. The elders might decide I am "associating" too much and have a JC.

  8) As a fader do you feel that the Org is completely powerless over your life?

  Other than the mentions above about "associating," they are completely powerless.
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  23

  Faith and Lies.

  by sparrowdown in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you were hooked up to a polygraph machine when you were still an asleep, kool-aid drinking dub and asked if you agree 100% with every single wt teaching (asked as individual questions and collectively), would you have "passed" with no signs of deception?.

  i know, i definitely would not have "passed" such an interegation.

  i would have tripped up on questions about blood, dfing and non jws being marked for destruction just to name a few.

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  OnTheWayOut

  OnTheWayOut - You make a good case for the cumulative effect personal doubt can have on someones belief sysyem. If I ever chat with a JW now I try and ask questions that will cause them to reflect on their own personal doubts rather than tell them what mine are, which I think is a mistake I made early on in my waking up journey. Thanks for the input.

  You are welcome. I have little else left except the cumulative effect with my JW loved ones. It won't necessarily work because they go back to their JW speeches and literature and strengthen the cult thoughts that were weakened. But you might get past that to something that sticks with them.
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  4

  Spring has sprung!

  by GrreatTeacher in

  1. social
  2. current

  though not officially spring, the past two days in the mid-atlantic have been gorgeous!

  it's been over 70°f and sunny.

  i've opened all the windows in the house and have sunshine and fresh air pouring in.. i walked outside today and noticed that my tulips are pushing through the ground.

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  OnTheWayOut

  It will go back-and-forth in northern Illinois, but it has been much warmer. Time to put the soft top back on the wrangler.
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  27

  I dont know how i can leave my family!

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mom and i were talking today about how next summer i will be 18 and she said that just thinking about it might make her cry.

  that made me think about how much more it would hurt her if i quit being a jw.

  i really do love my parents, i know they are just being cruelly manipulated by a cult and that they really think they are doing what is best for me.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Nobody should expect you to live a lie. If you want to try to leave without exposing any life choices that violate JW rules, it is a tough choice but not impossible. You can just not discuss JW issues after you leave. You can hide your sex life from your family, along with other things.

  I don't automatically recommend this, but it is better to try this than to remain a JW for others. Moving far away might help.

  Otherwise, the truer to youself you strive to live, the more at peace with yourself you can be. It is sad that this can make you risk family ties, but you may have to do that.
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  23

  Faith and Lies.

  by sparrowdown in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you were hooked up to a polygraph machine when you were still an asleep, kool-aid drinking dub and asked if you agree 100% with every single wt teaching (asked as individual questions and collectively), would you have "passed" with no signs of deception?.

  i know, i definitely would not have "passed" such an interegation.

  i would have tripped up on questions about blood, dfing and non jws being marked for destruction just to name a few.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I converted to JW as a young adult in his 20's, but was exposed to it from a JW mother while growing up. It is the only religion I knew. Dramatic circumstances in my life allowed me to completely embrace the JW lifestyle and doctrines. There was a chance of me waking up early as a study when I accompanied the brother studying with me on a call. The guy asked about storing up your own blood for a surgery and I could see nothing wrong with that, but then the elder tore into it about how you would have to obey the scriptures that say to pour it on the ground. I questioned him later about the literalness of that and trying to compare it to allowing your blood to be drawn for testing purposes. I wasn't quite satisfied with the answers, but I learned to stuff my problems down deep.

  For the first 7 years I was in deep, never questioning anything the society said. Then 1995 came. Some serious pioneers who read ahead in the magazines and break out all the references asked me about that major change to "generation." I was a brand new elder and I had to break out all the stuff, because I hadn't been doing all that. I was rather disturbed by the change. I asked other elders about it and one comment sticks out from a much older brother. "They change things sometimes."

  So my disagreement with them started growing. Before that, I already realized the double standard of getting connected people/families out of trouble where others wouldn't get the same. I already was telling people not to tell the elders everything, even though I was an elder, but to stop doing whatever and pray to Jehovah.
  
  So 8 years in, I would not have passed the polygraph. And it got worse each and every year after that.

  What it could say about you is that you were fully believing that you must check it out for yourself and verify truth vs. lies. It's what the Bereans were told. You were not just going with blind obedience. But being in a deceptive mind-control cult, it was sometimes difficult to know what to do, what to believe.
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  18

  Partaking of emblems

  by sloppyjoe2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this year will be my first for by going to the memorial.

  i will get asked by my parents how i can deny jesus even if i don't believe the end is close.

  my thoughts on this are as follows, bear in mind saying it's all make believe is not an option.. i think that jesus intended for everyone to eat the bread and drink the wine.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Any argument that includes "...so I am not going" leaves room for JW's to argue about it.

  All they know is that you have to go, you have to go, you have to go. Countering with anything whatsoever makes no sense to them. So throw out your excuse and be done.

  I thought I might get invited this year, as they are supposed to make some huge effort to invite former attendees back. (I am not DF'ed or DA'ed, just totally inactive.)

  Well, so far I have not been invited. GOOD. No need for an excuse.

  But if I do need an excuse, while it is not true I will say it anyway:
  "What day? Oh, you all should have let me know sooner. I can't go. I have tickets for an AC/DC concert that evening. If only you had invited me sooner."

  (Actually, JRK and I are going the Sunday before the Memorial, but they don't need to know that.)

  See, it just doesn't matter what excuse you give them. It won't be good enough anyway.