Posts by OnTheWayOut

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

OnTheWayOut

Here's my new answer from Buddhism about the beginning of the universe-

One day a man called Malunkyaputta approached the Master and demanded that He explain the origin of the Universe to him. He even threatened to cease to be His follow if the Buddha's answer was not satisfactory. The Buddha calmly retorted that it was of no consequence to Him whether or not Malunkyaputta followed Him, because the Truth did not need anyone's support. Then the Buddha said that He would not go into a discussion of the origin of the Universe. To Him, gaining knowledge about such matters was a waste of time because a man's task was to liberate himself from the present, not the past or the future. To illustrate this, the Enlightened One related the parable of a man who was shot by a poisoned arrow. This foolish man refused to have the arrow removed until he found out all about the person who shot the arrow. By the time his attendants discovered these unnecessary details, the man was dead. Similarly, our immediate task is to attain Nibbana, not to worry about our beginnings.

I appreciate that great minds are looking into the beginning (and the people Perry quotes from). But the arguments are never ending. The only reason I participate with Perry is because Perry wants to be convinced, hence his continous preoccupation.

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

OnTheWayOut

The universe had a beginning. You can't change that.
Beginnings have causes. You can't change that either.

Oh oh oh, I get it now. As long as the statement "The universe had a beginning" is accepted in science, you will say "Beginnings have causes, therefore God."

If science proved the universe had no beginning, but was always there, you would say "If something has no beginning, then this makes it easier to understand that God can have no beginning."

Perry takes the "God" road no matter what.

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

OnTheWayOut

There's one thing for certain: There's no evidence of intelligence creating Perry's thought processes.

If it is valid to say "Everything has a cause except God," it is more likely that everything has a cause except for the matter/energy of the universe. If God doesn't need a cause because it is infinite, it is more likely that the matter/energy of the universe has existed forever and therefore doesn't need a cause. Starting with the matter/energy being infinite, instead of God, makes fewer assumptions and causes fewer puzzles if you admit that you believe in one uncaused entity, and that entity is the universe itself or the matter/energy of said universe.

We cannot fall back on "Were you there?" because that is true no matter what you believe. There are theories about the "cause" or "start" (almost meaningless terms in the science, but important in our limited philosophies) of the singularity that contained the stuff of our universe. Regardless of whether those are sound in our minds, the default answer "God did it" is the stuff of primitive man and we need to get past that.

46

45 Minute Bethel Video about Changes (downsizing) at Watchtower

by OnTheWayOut in

i don't see this posted elsewhere, and i don't have the links besides this facebook one.. but here is a 45-minute long bethel talk about the changes at bethel including addressing the hard feelings of people who were given the axe.

basically, everything must change.

we gave remaining bethelites saturday off to do our bidding in "the field" and we give bethelites over 70 an extra day a week off (if you can find any such bethelites).

OnTheWayOut

Page 5 replies:

My Name, sparky1- thanks for pointing out the ultimate goal.

Keyser soze, thanks for an alternative thought on goals.

Pepperheart, they could replace it with one sentence. "Don't question, just obey."

150

I'm getting baptized

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

OnTheWayOut

While I like the thoughts of Slimboyfat on page 12, your family won't let you fade away without pressuring you toward baptism. They think they are literally saving you.

You have already chosen a path of resistancecthat includes doubting the doctrines. Great. I like how Defender of Truth says it on page 13:

"Generally speaking, be polite and respectful, and let HIM try to convince YOU. He won't be able to. He may even find that his reasoning comes up short.."

You can brush up with people here and at jwfact.com. But don't be an expert like you have been reading outside materials. Simply end with how you just aren't sure enough to fully accept the things said.

1914- the math of using 360-day years to apply a rule from various scriptures about a-day-for-a-year. Then they had to change the definition of "generation" to keep that date. That's as deep as you need to go to say, "I'm just not ready." Throw in, "How did you feel when they changed the meaning of generation?" If he gives you a standard statement of blind trust, just say how you are not there yet.

You have done so well. Remember your ultimate goal is to keep these family members in your life and you will do fine.

150

I'm getting baptized

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

OnTheWayOut

I am going to just repeat what Scully said.

You broke the ice and were brave enough to start this conversation. You have to go back and have some more of that conversation. "Grandma planning to come isn't a reason for me to stop having the same problems that are holding me back......

Am I old enough to get a driver's licence? No.

Am I old enough to vote? No.

Am I old enough to open a bank account without needing parents to co-sign? Probably not.

Am I old enough to get married? No.

Am I old enough to join the military? No. I haven't even registered for selective service yet.

Am I old enough to sign a contract? No.

I will be ready enough when I am ready enough."

7

Jehovah’s Witnesses Sell Their Longest-Held Property in Historic Brooklyn Heights (124 Columbia Heights)

by Da.Furious in

https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/united-states/witnesses-sell-property-124-columbia-heights/.

interesting aspect on this is that no where in the article there is a mention for how much it was sold.. on brooklyn daily eagle, it states that the building was sold for $105million to florida panthers (hockey team) owner.. http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2016/5/2/jehovahs-witnesses-sell-124-columbia-heights-florida-panthers-owner-vincent-viola.

da furious.

OnTheWayOut

If the org isn't overly concerned about money, then why wasn't the property donated?

Because it costs money to build new headquarters. You wouldn't want the Governing Body living in ordinary dormitory rooms with a bathroom down the hall, would you? Well, maybe you would. But you wouldn't want them to stop supporting so many full time workers and lay them off, would you? You wouldn't want the printed materials to get thinner and cheaper, would you? You wouldn't want them seizing old people's jewelry and property when their disfellowshipped heirs could have used it.

9

Just Refused Mags from Rich Customer

by snugglebunny in

oh dear.

i have a customer - dave - who gives me frequent and profitable work sometimes.

i'm retired but am happy to do a little bit part-time.. this morning i called to rectify some work he'd had done by a not-so expert "tradesman".

OnTheWayOut

The guy is loaded?

Third time will be a charm. Unless they think he never donated before and won't again.

29

Our thoughts on the latest JW Broadcast for the month of May

by Christian Gutierrez in

howdy guys!

this is our latest video on the jw broadcast in short form.

we talk about jw marriage challenges.

OnTheWayOut

I would rather listen to your review than actually watch the Watchtower crap. Thanks for that.

46

45 Minute Bethel Video about Changes (downsizing) at Watchtower

by OnTheWayOut in

i don't see this posted elsewhere, and i don't have the links besides this facebook one.. but here is a 45-minute long bethel talk about the changes at bethel including addressing the hard feelings of people who were given the axe.

basically, everything must change.

we gave remaining bethelites saturday off to do our bidding in "the field" and we give bethelites over 70 an extra day a week off (if you can find any such bethelites).

OnTheWayOut

Finish Page 3 replies:

Jookbeard, thanks for your thoughts. It's always just been a money scam.

Sparrowdown, that's right. As long as they sacrifice, Watchtower can twist it and use it anyway they want to.

Page 4 Replies:

Pepperheart, nice thought. I think it's going to be a very slow death, so I am not getting my hopes up. But I have a small hope that I am wrong.

Village Idiot, I do not know anything about how the company hatchet man job works, how these things are decided. I know it's cold and heartless. Thanks.

Sparky1, you gotta love such statements- "Jehovah loves you." I suppose if the laid off Bethelites make enough noise, the rank and file will be told how it's a sifting work to weed out prideful ones.

Crazyguy, yup. I think many will have social security though. But they won't have much else.

Village Idiot, only the ones who don't STFU will see that, I think. Most will get a cot in some JW family basement.

Diogenesister, anything to keep the money from Headquarters. How about they mail all their receipts from helping out former Bethelites, and say "Include that in our monthly donation."

bobld, sooner or later, the hatchet man has to go, too.