Posts by Beardo

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

I used to read the AiG website. And other books. And other websites. Sat myself down at the library and read various encyclopedia articles. And to my great consternation, the evidence pointed to evolution. I didn't actually want it to be that way. I was quite comfortable thinking that there was some god/force/something-or-other out there who would grant me an afterlife. I didn't want to come to terms with the fact that this life was all I was going to get.
I think that stops many believers from continuing their investigation and questioning about evolution. They can't face the alternative.

Hey Ascot - I don't think its quite ' case closed ' you know. Would you also have issues with a creative sentient force employing a form of evolution to create an ever-moving - ever-changing - ever-adapting system of life? (aside from the idea of an after life).

For sure, our definition of God we find in parts of the Bible may need looking at, but there really is no need to rule out the concept of a creator completely. Surely?

I accept that many belief systems are driven by the need to feel safe in the knowledge of an afterlife, but maybe this 'need to believe' has a foundation in truth rather than fear-fueled fantasy. Who can say for sure?

19

The "generation" teaching - just to clarify!

by Beardo in

sorry to be a major pain in the ass - but could those " in the know " clear something up for me?.

is the " generation " teaching that was redefined during 1995 still taught to " interested ones " or have the wtbts totally removed this generation idea from their new literature, which is used to indoctrinate a person leading up to baptism?.

any enlightenment welcome.

Beardo

So in essence - what we are saying is then - your average JW will still teach the 'generation' teaching in a study situation and the society still 'actually' believe the essence of the generation teaching themselves, but no longer define a specific time period?

Thanks for the input so far.

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

I bought this guys book - it has nearly fallen to bits. Some interesting odds'n'sods in there.

19

The "generation" teaching - just to clarify!

by Beardo in

sorry to be a major pain in the ass - but could those " in the know " clear something up for me?.

is the " generation " teaching that was redefined during 1995 still taught to " interested ones " or have the wtbts totally removed this generation idea from their new literature, which is used to indoctrinate a person leading up to baptism?.

any enlightenment welcome.

Beardo

Sorry to be a major pain in the ass - but could those " in the know " clear something up for me?

Is the " generation " teaching that was redefined during 1995 still taught to " interested ones " or have the WTBTS totally removed this generation idea from their new literature, which is used to indoctrinate a person leading up to baptism?

Any enlightenment welcome. This will be useful information for me.

I have to go out for a few hours, but will return to check any replies later.

Thanks in advance

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

Ok, if god is the designer, who designed god?

Aristotle referred to an "unmoved, mover" as the origin of all things set in motion.

http://www.abu.nb.ca/Courses/GrPhil/PhilRel/Aristotle.htm - I haven't read the whole link yet myself, but this phrase sprang to mind and is mentioned in one of my 'Cliff Notes' books on the philosophy of religion.

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

Everyone thinks i am a bible lover/god, but i actually don`t like the word `god`. and i hate religion,

I can live with the word God - it is just a tag that most people understand. If they load it with misconceptions, then that is their problem.

but on the other hand, i don`t believe in evo. You could say i`m like in the middle, with leanings more to creation, if you get my drift? Anyway, i would like to have a little survey to find out exactly how many ex`s on here do believe in evo?

I can put my cards on the table - I do not rule out evolution as a process in operation within the physical universe that aids our development or survival. But whether we actually developed over many millions of years and went from one distinct form to the next because of this process, I can't say for sure (obviously). My jury is out, and will probably always be out in my lifetime.

I'm no longer good with 'absolutes' concerning our origin.

So, I remain inbetween two ideas at present.

But, as is apparent if you have read my other thoughts to date, I believe there is another (or many) dimensional realities beyond our own and I also believe in sentient lifeforms existing beyond our ability to view them and certainly beyond our current understanding. I also believe ultimately in one sentient creator who is intrinsically linked to all matter & energy (as we define them).

I'm currently looking at the work of Masaru Emoto (run a search on Google) - you may find his work & thoughts inspiring

Hope that helps.

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

I don`t know if there can be a creator aside from the `god` of the bible

Dido

There can be - certainly. Yahweh is but one definition of God (albeit a very distinct and well defined God) amongst many other Gods. The concept of an invisible creator God is a very old idea and is not just expressed through Semitic mythology.

The Gnostics for instance have their own unique vision of what the supreme being is and many sects down through the ages have defined Yahweh as being intrinsically link to the physical realm; the higher form of God lying above & beyond the lower form(s).

This does make sense when we see the image of God expressed through the earth that we experience, with all of the inherent flaws and problems that represent major theological absurdities when we say that God is perfect, yet created (and sustains) what many people would consider an imperfect world.

The Gnostic scriptures have been suppressed by the church for centuries, yet they do offer their own form of light IMO upon the nature of reality and what ultimately God may actually be. Very unorthodox, for sure, yet another branch of knowledge worth considering when approaching this particular subject. The universal Christian church rallied against the Gnostic sects and scrolls like Thomas were cast into the fire, although these scrolls apparently were common amongst early followers of THE WAY.

Then if we move towards the East, we see another form of God. Definitely worth considering, alongside the definition of God we find in the Bible.

I believe the truth lies amidst all of these ideas. Possibly

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

Any of you seen the "manufactured reality" of what really happens inside a Coke vending machine?

Wow - stunning graphics... shame that stuff is a vile toxin

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

Seriously, don`t let this lot bog you down with their waffling about evo, it`s all in their minds!

I won't. Don't worry. I'm a stubborn old goat and play silly games on forums from time to time.

I do accept parts of the EVO thing, I just don't go the whole way. But ultimately, I haven't got the foggiest what actually happened "in the beginning" - I used to believe the Genesis account was literal at one time, then, well, I looked at a lot of information, got confused, my head nearly exploded and then I slipped on my metaphorical lenses which seemed to help me quite a lot.

What will be will be and time will tell.

Toddle - pip & pleez, don't take this too heart, just take a deep breath, exhale slowly, relax, drink a nice warm cup of tea and if you need inspiration listen to this guys music:

http://www.myspace.com/nadishana

Especially " Winter Song " - the guy is an absolute genius.

537

evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 in

jw
friends

ok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?

(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .

hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .

Beardo

why do you think hardly anyone got involved with the thread, because they know what you lot are

Hi Dido

I think part of the trouble is the use of language and also folk not fully understanding specific concepts. I'm no great one to talk here. I just about keep up with the various ideas expressed by evolutionists, but cannot really engage enough to counter arguments presented in certain areas............................. YET !!!!!!!!

I am clearly not well read when it comes to this area of research (aside from a handful of articles on the internet). But I can live with that for now. I do find the idea of organisms responding to external stimuli fascinating and an organisms ability to adapt to the environment in order to move forward and survive acceptable. I can live with that and it does not remove the central core of my beliefs or who I am and my personal experiences that I have decided to define as touching the supernatural world that we now barely comprehend, let alone understand.

As others have said, none of the above necessarily excludes a creative sentient force at work in the life we share, that you & I call GOD.

I think sometimes it is good to lower the shield and let others be ones guide for a while.

Abaddon's still an a-hole though (slight pun intended).