Even though "the end must be close," I walked on the "spiritual" "road leading off into destruction" because I listened to "higher criticism" and "worldly association." My "independent spirit" led to a "fault finding attitude," and I lost my "appreciation" for the "spiritual food" with its "spiritual" wine left on the "spiritual" dregs, "spiritually" filtered by God's "spirit-directed organization" of "spirit-appointed" "overseers." The "spirit of the world" finally won, and I left the John-Jeremiah-Ezekiel-Daniel-and-any-other-prophet-we-can-think-of-while-claiming-not-to-be-false-prophets-class.
veradico
JoinedPosts by veradico
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89
The JW phrase I most despise is...
by exwitless in"need greaters" ugh!!
i hate that phrase and i always have.
we knew a jw couple who applied every year to bethel and giliad until the age cut-off (age 35 or 40?).
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Do the dubs have a Judaic feel about them?
by greendawn indid or do you ever feel that the whole jw ambience is very judaic in nature and not at all authentically christian?
to me the one thing that really does it is the perception of god as a lord and not as a father as is the case in the old testament.
the whole point of baptism and the anointing of the spirit is to effect that adoption by god yet virtually all dubs deny this anointing ergo god remains to them a lord and a very harsh one at that.
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veradico
They have the same delight in law-making, or, rather, law-explaining that the Pharisees had. It can easily be stereotyped by those who are hurt by the practice, but it can come from a good place. The Pharisees were not all bad. They just fell into the dangerous and hurtful mistake of choosing abstractions over reality, of choosing law over life. The real world does not conform to proscriptive laws. Laws are, at best, reasonably correct descriptions of how reality happens to work. Ethical "laws" are more dangerous. They don't talk about how humans do behave; they tell humans how they ought to behave. Sometimes they are grounded in the reality of human nature and really point to healthy ways humans can conduct their lives. But those who become enchanted by the beauties and benefits of law and comfored by its presence and regularity can forget the real human condition. Sometimes the laws do not correspond to what we are and, instead of helping us realize our potential, stifle us.
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KH restoration in New Orleans
by lostlantern ini just received this from a family member, i was wondering if anyone has any videos that depict bapstists, catholics or any other religion helping out with volunteers?
i would love to respond with my own video that shows jw's are not alone in caring for others when disaster strikes.
what other group of people can do this?
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veradico
The use of the song about the resurrection in the background while the KH was "resurrected" is an interesting touch. If it was sincere, I suppose I just can't relate to the mind who made it, but it's certainly dramatic. If it was a cynical attempt to recruit sensitive young people, the creator learned his lessons well from the folks at the Watchtower.
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Watchtower humility and The Gitanjali of Tagore
by veradico ini was thinking about how watchtower publications talk so much about humility, but really they are designed to humiliate.
we are instructed to distrust our hearts, think of ourselves as sinners, and look to the society for direction and salvation.
the publications spend so much time condemning independent thinking, higher education, higher criticism, the pleasures of life, the diversity of human expression, and the general messiness and complexity of life that the poor people like many in my family who are still trapped are consumed by a fear of getting their white robes (washed in the blood of the lamb) messy in the dirt of the world.
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veradico
I was thinking about how Watchtower publications talk so much about humility, but really they are designed to humiliate. We are instructed to distrust our hearts, think of ourselves as sinners, and look to the Society for direction and salvation. The publications spend so much time condemning independent thinking, higher education, higher criticism, the pleasures of life, the diversity of human expression, and the general messiness and complexity of life that the poor people like many in my family who are still trapped are consumed by a fear of getting their white robes (washed in the blood of the Lamb) messy in the dirt of the world. They want to be saved from the very world that could be their Paradise. Anyway, I wish they could read Tagore's Gitanjali. I'll paste part of it below. If anyone wants to read more, just visit http://www.eldritchpress.org/rt/git.htm.
My song has put off her adornments. She has no pride of dress and decoration. Ornaments would mar our union; they would come between thee and me; their jingling would drown thy whispers.
My poet's vanity dies in shame before thy sight. O master poet, I have sat down at thy feet. Only let me make my life simple and straight, like a flute of reed for thee to fill with music.
The child who is decked with prince's robes and who has jewelled chains round his neck loses all pleasure in his play; his dress hampers him at every step.
In fear that it may be frayed, or stained with dust he keeps himself from the world, and is afraid even to move.
Mother, it is no gain, thy bondage of finery, if it keeps one shut off from the healthful dust of the earth, if it rob one of the right of entrance to the great fair of common human life.
O Fool, try to carry thyself upon thy own shoulders! O beggar, to come beg at thy own door!
Leave all thy burdens on his hands who can bear all, and never look behind in regret.
Thy desire at once puts out the light from the lamp it touches with its breath. It is unholy -- take not thy gifts through its unclean hands. Accept only what is offered by sacred love.
Here is thy footstool and there rest thy feet where live the poorest, and lowliest, and lost.
When I try to bow to thee, my obeisance cannot reach down to the depth where thy feet rest among the poorest, and lowliest, and lost.
Pride can never approach to where thou walkest in the clothes of the humble among the poorest, and lowliest, and lost.
My heart can never find its way to where thou keepest company with the companionless among the poorest, the lowliest, and the lost.
Leave this chanting and singing and telling of beads! Whom dost thou worship in this lonely dark corner of a temple with doors all shut? Open thine eyes and see thy God is not before thee!
He is there where the tiller is tilling the hard ground and where the pathmaker is breaking stones. He is with them in sun and in shower, and his garment is covered with dust. Put of thy holy mantle and even like him come down on the dusty soil!
Deliverance? Where is this deliverance to be found? Our master himself has joyfully taken upon him the bonds of creation; he is bound with us all for ever.
Come out of thy meditations and leave aside thy flowers and incense! What harm is there if thy clothes become tattered and stained? Meet him and stand by him in toil and in sweat of thy brow.
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how many atheist and agnostics on this site
by dannygwalsh inhi everyone just a question to satisfy my curiosity , and if you are a non believer are you happier for being so
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veradico
I pray to you, O God who is not. I pray into the silence most dreadful that you would speak, O unseen Lord of Light. How often have the children of humanity hurled their hopes into your vast and terrible emptiness, longing only to hear something, even the echo of their loneliness? The children of Poverty, Poverty so palpably real, beg at your door. O vain hope of love, they cry to you, who they call Love, they, the children hated for their strange and unnatural longings, for their lovers either too foreign or too similar. How appropriate that you, O Void, create division, that you who are empty create the empty space between Good and Evil, between faiths and tongues and nations. Would that you were, O you who are not. Would that you could tell me the meaning that justifies all the inexcusable deeds done in your holy name. Even if this small thing lies beyond the impotent power of your omnipotence, you could at least, O ideal before whom reality shatters, you could at least announce your non-existence. Then, O fabled Prince of Peace, there could be peace. But until that day comes, that day of cleansing fire and expiation, we will live in your hell and consume ourselves in the shuddering fevers of your holy wars. Raise up a prophet, O God, to announce your non-will, to tell forth the tidings of your absence. Lo! He comes on a white horse. In his right hand, he holds a rod for breaking. May he shatter the empty idols I have fashioned after your likeness, the holy words and sacred signs that mark out the shape of the shadow of my dreams. May I be strong enough, Lord, to not feel I need your strength. But I will say of your prophet, “Here is my God, O children of the free. My God has come to give me freedom from the lies of my forefathers.” The rod for smashing will be the holy symbol of righteous judgment. And you will laugh. You will laugh in your empty, hollow way. The joke of course is that I don’t exist either. Just as when I reach for you I find nothing but emptiness heavier than stone, when I look for myself I find merely the play of shadows and light on the surface of consciousness. If there is any content to the names and forms I ascribe to you in moments of rapture and anguish, perhaps you, O God who is not, emerge somehow, like Venus, from the frothing, creative chaos of what is.
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Greg Stafford says racial unity among JW's makes them God's people
by truthseeker incheck this out.... http://www.elihubooks.com/greg-stafford/jwd3.htm.
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veradico
As I've read Stafford's work, I can't help but be impressed. He seems to be slowly working his way deeper and deeper into the underlying assumptions of the Jehovah's Witnesses. First, he addressed in his fair and honest fashion the teachings and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses that he felt could be defended. Then he went into that peculiarly entwined problem of a chronology (1914) being used to support a religious authority (The Faithful Slave) that then imposes all sorts of non-biblical beliefs (such as, ironically, 1914 and other dates) and practices (turning in time, ban on blood transfusions and holidays, etc.) on people.
But he still has, as I alluded to in my earlier post, certain idols that he does not question because, as mentioned in the post on cognitive dissonance, they are cherished. He has yet to defend his conviction that God must be the personal deity called Jehovah. He has yet to defend his devotion to the particular writings he views as authoritative. If he maintains his objective interest in knowing and defending what is true, what is real, he may someday give us a work that speaks to questions of general and universal interest to people with a Western religious background. For example, can the idea of "sin" or "salvation" be defended by an honest apologist? Can an honest apologist defend the exclusive or even unique truth claims of Christianity? Can one even speak of some uniform thing called "Christianity" when one truly has a historical consciousness of all the diverse groups who have claimed that name? These are the sorts of things I'd like to see Greg move on to.
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Greg Stafford says racial unity among JW's makes them God's people
by truthseeker incheck this out.... http://www.elihubooks.com/greg-stafford/jwd3.htm.
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veradico
If Jehovah's Witnesses do not desplay devotion to their own race or culture or look down on other races, it is because the Watchtower Society has cut them off from all other cultural ties. This might be a rare example of a benefit of the Society's exclusivity. However, the cure could be worse than the disease. Sure, most white members may not hate most black members, but they almost universally look down on both white and black non-members. As for the mystical devotion to the name JEHOVAH, I suppose we are all allowed our idols.
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Let's All Welcome Veradico!!!
by onesong inhe's a good friend of mine who will have plenty to add here.
(he's written volumes on the dubs) having recently attained some much needed freedom he was able to join the forum.. he may be a little hesitant to come forth at first, but with a little coaxing...he's got a good "coming out of the org.
" story and lots of insight!.
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veradico
Thanks for the hint. What I wrote was originally divided into paragraphs, but the computer kept having trouble posting until I turned off the HTML formatting.
I hope you're able to stop by and say hi. I'll make you a gin and tonic or something. Times will be had.
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Let's All Welcome Veradico!!!
by onesong inhe's a good friend of mine who will have plenty to add here.
(he's written volumes on the dubs) having recently attained some much needed freedom he was able to join the forum.. he may be a little hesitant to come forth at first, but with a little coaxing...he's got a good "coming out of the org.
" story and lots of insight!.
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veradico
Well. Thank you, Onesong, for initiating such a warm welcome from everyone. I didn't know he was going to do that, folks. How did you put it, Onesong, “coming out” of the Organization? Such a curious expression, is it not? So much of life as a dub (a delightful term, by the way) consists in concealing and suppressing who we are. I know I spent a ridiculous amount of time growing up trying to fit myself into the Watchtower’s inhuman mold. But what living thing does not want to grow? All the affairs of life that most empower us—such as friendship, education, and creative activity—involve revealing, cautiously revealing ourselves to others and to ourselves. By isolating us from the world and, really, from meaningful friendships with each other, the Watchtower is able to cripple many who would otherwise flourish. Sigh. Since I was raised as a good little Jehovah’s Witness, I naturally struggle with a sense of isolation. This is exacerbated by the fact that both of my parents are mentally ill. My sister and I spent much of our childhood living with my grandparents, who helped take care of my mom until my sister and I were able to take a more active role. My sister is now having to bear this burden alone while I’m away at one of the institutions of higher learning forbidden by the all-wise and benevolent Watchtower Society. So, back to coming out of the org. It’s strange how one harmless question leads to another. All the time I was auxiliary pioneering, serving as (Oh God, I hate this horribly redundant title) a ministerial servant, and just going about the life of a dub who’s also trying to have a life, I suppose a part of me was noticing the stuff that didn’t fit. Why were people whose natural function, as rational animals, is to reason afraid to think? Why do dubs spend so much time “harmonizing” the Bible if it’s already a harmonious whole? Why do the dreadfully dull prophecy books we study at bookstudies sound so strained and strident? You all know what I mean. As my level of education increased, I started noticing logical problems with the doctrines and issues of translation in the NWT. (I'm a Classics major, so I can read Greek, Latin, and a little Hebrew. Also, I went to a Catholic college. Just imagine how THAT went over in my congregation. In any case, the Catholics are very good at teaching religion and philosophy.) But the saddest data comes from the kind people who are being deceived. They put on a great show for the “new ones.” But so many are depressed. The Watchtower’s “hope,” into which they pour so much emotional energy, gives them nothing now but lives of quiet (very quiet) desperation. Anyway, I was talking about coming out. I’m gay. This, of course, complicates things when one is a Witness. But, on another level, being a Witness is the best training for being in the closet that I can imagine. All the skills that make one a good Witness also make one a good closeted homosexual. Where else but in “The Truth” could I have learned to isolate myself so perfectly, to shut off almost all of my natural inclinations for social (and sexual) intercourse? Does the data coming in from the outside world and your own experience contradict the imaginary world you’re trying to live in? Sure, but somehow you manage to explain it all away, tuck it all under the rug. Do you spend so much time trying to convince other people that you manage to almost convince yourself? Then you’re either a gay man who’s trying to stay in the closet, or you’re a dub who’s trying to stay in “The Truth.” Or, if you’re like I was, you’re both. I didn’t even let myself realize I was gay until I had discarded the Jehovah’s Witness theology. I suppose this deserves some clarification. Sure. On some level, I always knew liked to look at other guys, and I always told people I was never going to marry. But I just told myself that my thoughts were a passing phase or something and prayed to Jehovah to change me. It was a long process for me. And it still continues. Fortunately, I have a large group of friends such as Onesong who all started rethinking the whole JW thing at the same time. We have been able to support each other. Again, thank you all for your kind welcome.
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If you could make and distribute a bumper stick to open minds.......
by whyizit inif you could make and distribute bumper stickers to use as a tool to open the minds of jws or cult members, what would you put on them?.
keep in mind that you would like to open thier minds, yet not offend them.
something that any person could stick on their bumper and the jws would not be able to find reason to label them as opposers or apostates.
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veradico
Emily Dickinson has some poems that, while perhaps too big for a bumper sticker, are pithy and insightful.
I S Heaven a physician? They say that He can heal; But medicine posthumous Is unavailable. Is Heaven an exchequer? 5 They speak of what we owe; But that negotiation I ’m not a party to. I SHOULD have been too glad, I see, Too lifted for the scant degree Of life’s penurious round; My little circuit would have shamed This new circumference, have blamed 5 The homelier time behind. I should have been too saved, I see, Too rescued; fear too dim to me That I could spell the prayer I knew so perfect yesterday,— 10 That scalding one, “Sabachthani,” Recited fluent here. Earth would have been too much, I see, And heaven not enough for me; I should have had the joy 15 Without the fear to justify,— The palm without the Calvary; So, Saviour, crucify. Defeat whets victory, they say; The reefs in old Gethsemane 20 Endear the shore beyond. ’T is beggars banquets best define; ’T is thirsting vitalizes wine,— Faith faints to understand.
F AITH is a fine invention For gentlemen who see; But microscopes are prudent In an emergency!