Posts by dubla

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

abaddon-

It tells us there weren't any at all.

like i said, i thought the bush administration had said as much months ago. maybe im mistaken on that.?. i really thought they had conceded long ago that it was highley unlikely that any significant stockpiles would be found....the exact same thing the report said. i guess you can make it into new news, but it really isnt, imo.

Can you not see the comment by Kay is just a rather simplitic diversionary tactic to make it appear that despite the prime reason for invasion is now unarguably false and contrieved, it was still okay to invade against world opinion on different grounds?

i wasnt aware that kay was a war supporter...am i mistaken on that as well?

You can carry on discssing it for years if you want, but THERE WEREN'T ANY is a pretty clear resolution of the debate.

you completely misunderstood my comment there. what i was saying is that the anti-war crowd will be talking about wmds (and the fact that there werent any) for years. you were saying "deal with the reminder", and i was replying that i think there will be plenty of reminders for years to come.....not that it will be an ongoing debate.

Bush and his croinies made MORE terrorism by invading Iraq in the manner they did.

yeah, i think al qaeda was just getting ready to call a truce before this war...now we are screwed!

aa

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

realist-

i understand your opinion on the topic, and your points are not completely without validity. i wont respond to them point by point for the simple fact that your above post brings nothing new to the table.....nothing i havent already responded to in the past with valid (imo, of course) counter points.

i have a question for you.....when it comes down to it, if we had found, after the war, that saddam did indeed have large stockpiles of hidden wmds, would it have made a difference to your position on the war? my guess is that it wouldnt have changed your view (or the view of the majority of the anti-war crowd) on the war itself. the reason i say this is because there was plenty of vocal opposition to the war way before anyone knew for sure if wmds would be found or not (although i will say you were one of the few people who were very adamant from the start in your opinion that saddam didnt possess such weapons any longer....most waited until some time passed after the attack to start criticizing the justification for war). if my guess is correct, it really makes much of this discussion moot.

aa

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

french-

dubbla what is your answer to me exactly ... ???

my answer to you was simply that i do not try to push my beliefs on others, as you implied i have. i think everyone is entitled to their own opinions on politics, religion, etc...and its not up to me to change minds. the people out there constantly starting thread after thread on political subjects are the ones with an agenda to push their views in everyones faces, imo....and that hasnt been me.

im not trying to be rude here, but i really didnt understand the rest of your post. what am i being sneaky about?

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865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

simon-

So, your reading ability is as poor as your political judgement or else you just resort to intentional misunderstanding.

i re-read it now, and realized my mistake....i thought it read "anymore off topic comments and you will be deleted", not "by you" as it actually reads (if you read my response to that comment, youll see i clearly misread it)....my mistake. btw, is picking at my "reading ability" the same as picking at someones spelling, as you always claim is petty? just wondering.

aa

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

french-

If someone have a gun or lets say even a knive or why not a bottle that he can break an use as a weapon against you (even without having them treatened you) well KILL HIM !!! ... Get ready to kill the whole world

wow, thats an eye-opening analogy. i can see where youd compare a regime like saddams with a guy holding a bottle. after all, who has saddam ever threatened or killed? hes always been the biggest pacifist around, hasnt he? im pretty sure his record is spotless.

And no Simon why deleete anything ? ... WE NEED THOSE RECORDS !!! ...

i think he was just threatening to ban me from the site...not remove my prior comments. no worries.

It take lots of space but it's good record as reminder for those who feel that they can push anyone on the war side

ive never tried to "push" my beliefs on anyone. i think everyone is entitled to their own beliefs; political, religious, or otherwise. just because i enjoy debate doesnt mean i want to convert others to my viewpoint.....debate is fun, even when you end up being wrong on the issue (which is the case for me on wmds being found). i think the ones who really have an agenda to push their viewpoint are the ones who start the most threads on a topic....and if you look, ive started very, very few threads on this topic or any other. i like to join in and engage in discussion....that doesnt mean ill always be right, or that i want others to agree with me on the topic...if we all agreed, we wouldnt have debate...how much fun would that be?

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865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

abaddon-

Er... no, a subject which was in the process of determination has now been determined.

on cnn this morning, david kay said that this report tells us absolutely nothing new about saddams wmds. he said the only new information was the light that was shed on saddams evasion of the sanctions. so, really we dont know anything now we didnt already know in august. didnt bush and blair admit long ago that wmds would probably not be found? so how is this a new determination? the report said there is "little chance" of significant stockpiles being found....the same thing the bush administration said months ago.

I suppose that one could describe that as serving the agenda of truth. Do you have a problem with that?

i cant respond to this question fully without giving an "off topic" answer....and ive been warned that doing so would result in me being deleted. so, the short answer is no, ive got no problem with that.

If you don't like being reminded that people who insisted that stocks of WoMD would eventually be found were (technical term coming up here) WRONG, tough.

no, ive got no problem being reminded.....itll go on much longer than this. the discussions about saddams wmds or lack thereof will most likely continue for years.

Making it seem like an emergency made rapid military action a viable plan. We now know we could have hopefully done it smarter and better by involving more Arabic countries so that they were seen as heading a 'police-action' to allow a dictator with human-right violations to be deposed by an oppressed populace with outside help. This would have taken time, but we had time.

i agree....i think the situation was handled poorly, and as ive said to you in the past, i think the threat was exaggerated in order to justify the war.

If you want to join the ranks of those who are apologists for the American hegemony

im not going to defend every action ever taken by the u.s., but i do think iraq and the rest of the world is better off with saddam out of power.

aa

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

simon-

Yeah, right. You can't stick to the topic now because your past comments and assertions make you look a bit of a ass don't they?

lets avoid the ad hominem attacks, okay? and no, my past comments stand....the fact is that saddam had wmds at one time, and when he was required to prove he destroyed them he either could not, or refused. either way, he was in breach of the resolution and couldve avoided the war. this morning on cnn they were interviewing david kay (do a google search if youre unfamiliar with him)......hes not exactly the biggest supporter of the war, but he did say there was no way under the previous conditions (pre-war) that any president couldve known the truth about iraqs wmds. if a president couldnt have known for sure, how could i have? no one knew for certain.....some chose to take saddams word for it. i made a logical conclusion based on saddams known stockpiles (gulf war era) and his actions after the resolution (if you remember, none of my beliefs have ever been based on any "evidence" from this administration). saddams actions defied logic, and in turn he was taken out of power.

You lost.

this isnt a game to me...it might be to you. naa-naa-na-boo-boo antics might be fun, but they dont add any value to the situation or the discussion. the only people that "lost" are the dead iraqis and coalition soldiers.

I think the "silliest remnants" of the discussion are those by the neo-con zeolots who fell for the lies

again, ill repeat, my personal beliefs about saddams wmds have never been based on any evidence by this administration (ive said that from day one)....therefore, even if bush and blair "lied" as you believe, its impossible for my position to be based on those "lies". ive also taken you to task about calling me a neo-con zealot several times, and im far from being the right extremist you attempt to make me out to be. isnt this the same type of labeling and exaggerating youve asked others to refrain from? please give me the same courtesy you expect of others.

even though thier "messiahs" have let them down and no longer believe things themselves.

bush is far from my messiah....unfortunately hes the best option we have right now. as abaddon has brought out many times, our two party system is antiquated. dont forget, kerry believed the exact same things about saddams wmds that i did....so this isnt an issue that can differenciate bush from kerry.

Any more off-topic comments by you will be deleted.

thats a bit harsh isnt it? im fully willing to discuss the topic with you...id only ask that you actually respond to the questions i pose, just as i have responded to every single question youve posed. thats how a discussion works.

aa

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

name-

How do you destroy that which you do not possess?

it is an uncontested fact that at one time saddam did possess wmds (and has used them on his own people).....he admitted to having large stockpiles of various wmds in declarations to the u.n. let me know if you need links...i can dig back through this thread and find them.

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865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

His playing games with the weapons inspectors seemed to point towards some concealment. In fact, he almost tried to look guilty!

exactly....and his games got his country attacked. perhaps he wanted to be a martyr? he couldve easily avoided the war if he indeed had destroyed his wmds by proving it...but he refused, knowing full well the consequences. i guess trying to figure out the whys of a madmans actions might be futile.

aa

865

WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon in

now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!

perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.

now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.

dubla

simon-

It's been unlocked for months actually.

interesting that the first post since emans "locking" post was made today then (by you, oddly enough). a wild coincidence i guess. btw, what would be the purpose of unlocking a thread that was specifically locked because it was going nowhere and only causing problems? has something changed? who unlocked it?

Thanks for trying to change the subject though, I guess it shows your position was silly.

i wasnt trying to change the subject....just pointing out that the rules obviously get bent when it serves the right persons purpose. as far as my position goes, youve dodged nearly every question ive posed to you on this thread (including some on this very page back in august), and whenever called to the mat you give your "pearls and swine" speech........your antics are the silliest remnants of this entire discussion.

aa