Posts by dungbeetle

1

"Dateline" transcripts

by Ephanyminitas in

i just want to let everyone know that i have edited versions of dateline's "witness for the prosecution" online at http://207.218.192.12/~davisonline/dateline.txt and http://207.218.192.12/~davisonline/dateline.pdf.

i say "edited" because i removed the video descriptions and corrected a few errors in the one that was sent to me.

i think most people will find it helpful.

dungbeetle

here's a combined one of both airings,

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=29734&site=3

17

US Assemblies

by Satanus in

if it has been posted, i apologise and ask to be directed there.

can someone furnish the dates and places of the district conventions in the us?

this would be useful for a few who are wrestling w the wt.

dungbeetle

hey bonoidiot:

Can you think of something better to do than tell us you have something better to do?

Methinks if you had something better to do you would be out doing it...

So QUICK HURRY RUSH do something better, before it's too late.

I thought a lot of things when I was a practicing JW. I thought about demonized smurfs, disfellowshiping rape survivors, rewarding pedophiles with , and I TOO thought the picketers were stupid.

I WAS WRONG ABOUT ALL OF IT.

Zero or Negative Growth in 75 countries in 2001;

Zero or negative growth in 150 countries in 2002. YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Memeorial Partakers 2003: 20,000 YEAH!!!!!!!

200

How Many States / Countrys Are Represented Here?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

i am from houston texas myself.

dungbeetle

What is it with ex-jw's they need to live near water? Is it a 'back in the womb' thing?

12

JWS slave class deaths

by formoretax in

this is my first post and i offer thanks for all of your thoughts, some of which are almost as crazy as my own.. i ran away at age 14 to escape and have never looked back.

the decision was difficult but nothing by comparison to the trauma which followed.

this organization is "evil" in all of its ways and should not be allowed to grow.

dungbeetle

And to show you how 'Jehovah's Witnesses' were 'singled out' for persecution:

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/africa/malawi/history.htm

As British control expanded, trade and the number of foreigners in the area increased - and so did indigenous resistance to colonisation. In the early 1900, Reverend John Chilembwe organised the first serious anti-British effort when he led an attack on a large estate that resulted in the death of its white manager. The colonial authorities crushed the movement, and no major bids for independence surfaced again until the 1950s.

The British joined Nyasaland with the Federation of Northern and Southern Rhodesia (now Zambia and Zimbabwe), a move that deepened resentment against colonial rule. The Nyasaland African Congress, which had been formed in 1944, was led by Dr Hastings Banda after the federation was announced. A year later, the colonial authorities declared a state of emergency, jailed Banda and went on a rampage that left 52 Africans dead. Opposition continued, strengthened by the release of Banda in 1960. The British negotiated with Banda for elections, which were held the following year and were capped by the overwhelming victory of Banda and his party (now called the Malawian Congress Party). Shortly afterward the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland was dissolved, and Malawi declared its independence in July 1964.

Banda's rule proved to be harsh. Those of his opposition who weren't silenced were driven into exile. Through his business dealings, Banda also controlled the economy completely. As if that weren't enough power, Banda declared himself 'President for Life' in 1971. A cozy relationship with South Africa made the construction of the new capital, Lilongwe (it had previously been at Blantyre), which opened for business in 1975.

The first elections since independence were held in 1978 - a farce, really, considering that Banda personally vetted everyone who intended to run, disqualifying 90% of the field right off the top by submitting potential candidates to an English test. As the 1980s wore on it became increasingly clear that Banda was Malawi - running the political system, the ruling party and the economy. One newspaper estimated that 250,000 people disappeared or were murdered during Banda's 30 year reign. By the 1990s, however, opposition to Banda's totalitarian one-party rule grew, spurred on by the end of the Cold War and the drying up of aid to the west's 'client states' - such as Malawi.

The critical moment came in 1992, when Catholic bishops released a pastoral letter condemning Banda, touching off demonstrations throughout the country. When donor countries cut off all non-humanitarian aid until Banda agreed to relinquish power, the final nail in the coffin went home. Over 80% of the electorate took part in a 1993 referendum, voting for a new system over Banda by a 2-1 ratio. Despite the brief threat of a military coup, multi-party elections went ahead the following year.

Bakili Muluzi, a Muslim from Machinga in the south, emerged as the new president. Muluzi immediately freed prisoners, reestablished freedom of speech and the press and lifted the unofficial night curfew that had marked the Banda years. Banda himself was tried in 1995 for ordering the murder of three government ministers but was acquitted, later apologising for any suffering he may have 'unknowingly caused.'

Running a multi-party democracy hasn't been easy, especially with crippling inflation, severe economic reforms, soaring unemployment, malnutrition and rising crime. Despite the country's ongoing problems, Muluzi won over 50% of the vote in the 1999 presidential elections.

As always, Jehovah's Witnesses are the SMALLEST group Persecute with no less survivability than any other group.

And as always, it was Babylon the great and the Agents of Satan--foreign governments --who stepped in and saved the day, as they have so many times in Watchtower's pathetic history.

BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

12

JWS slave class deaths

by formoretax in

this is my first post and i offer thanks for all of your thoughts, some of which are almost as crazy as my own.. i ran away at age 14 to escape and have never looked back.

the decision was difficult but nothing by comparison to the trauma which followed.

this organization is "evil" in all of its ways and should not be allowed to grow.

dungbeetle

http://www.dtl.org/cults/treatise/jws-cult-2.htm

Second, often, the witnesses bring the persecution on themselves. Ray Franz is a former member of the Governing Body and nephew of the current president of the WT, Fred Franz. As a member of the board, he was fully acquainted with the persecution JWs were experiencing in Malawi between 1964-75.

He states:
Beginning in 1964, JWs in Malawi began to experience persecution and violence on a scale unequaled in modern times . . . . In the first attack, 1,081 Malawi families saw their little homes burned or otherwise demolished, 588 fields of crops destroyed. In the 1967 attacks, Witnesses reported the rapings of more than one thousand of their women, one mother being sexually violated by six different men, her thirteen-year-old daughter by three men . . . . In each wave of violence, beatings, torture and even murder went virtually unchecked by the authorities . . . (Franz, p. 112).

Such atrocities are to be condemned.

However, Franz continues:
What was the issue around which this recurrent storm of violence revolved? It was the refusal of the Witnesses to purchase a party card of the ruling political party . . . . JWs who inquired were told that to buy such a party card would be a violation of their Christian neutrality, a compromise, hence, unfaithfulness to God . . . . The vast majority of Malawaian Witnesses held firm to that position even though at enormous cost to themselves (Franz, p. 112).

What is especially disturbing about this situation was that the board took a totally different position concerning a similar situation occurring at the same time in Mexico.

Franz relates:
Put briefly, in Mexico men of draft age are required to undergo a specified period of military training during a period of one year. Upon registration the registrant receives a certificate or "cartilla" with places for noting down attendance at weekly military instruction classes. It is illegal and punishable for any official to fill in this attendance record if the registrant has not actually attended. But officials can be bribed to do so. According to the Branch Office Committee this is also a common practice among JWs in Mexico (Franz, p. 119).

Why do the Witnesses in Mexico break the law and bribe officials to get this card? Because the Governing Body told then to do so! Franz includes a copy of a letter the board sent to Mexico on page 121 of his book.

The letter stated in part:
If members of the military establishment are willing to accept such an arrangement upon the payment of a fee then that is the responsibility of these representatives of the national organization . . . . If the consciences of certain brothers allow then to enter into such an arrangement for their continued freedom, we have no objection. Of course, if they get into any difficulties over their course of action then they are to shoulder such difficulties themselves, and we could not offer them any assistance (Franz, p. 121).

It was this type of coldness shown on part of the Governing Body and their double standards that convinced Franz that they were not being led by the Holy Spirit as they claimed and caused him to leave the WT.

57

Pending Tragedy for the WTS and JWs

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

pending tragedy for the wts and jws.

the heavy-handed tactics of the leaders of the watchtower society have begun to bear rotten fruit.

i suspect that it is just a matter of time before the need arises to coin some phrase to describe disfellowshipped or disassociated jehovah's witnesses who bomb conventions, shoot up kingdom halls or even attack bethel facilities.. leaders of the wts (and local elders) should stop and think about the lessons to be learned from columbine high school, the postal service (i.e.

dungbeetle

consider how many JW's and ex-jw's have committed suicide or family annihilation, any warnings are a little late for them...DO YA THINK!!! Does anyone really consider family annihilation NOT VIOLENY? HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO

Anyway, my point is, people commit these acts when they are desparate and in terrible trouble and think they have no place to go.

Well, they have a place to go. They have many places to go. And like the missionaries for thousands of years before us, we don't wait for them to commit some violent act, nor do we make them come crawling to us for help and at some horrible price.

JW's, ex-jw's and non-jw's have been working together for years, and our efforts are getting more results. If we don't hear of a suicide or a family annihilation for months at a time now, MAYBE--just MAYBE--our efforts are bearing fruit.

We can always hope.

thanks for Simon and Angharad for running this M.A.S.H unit, with its incoming wounded daily.

BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

57

Pending Tragedy for the WTS and JWs

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

pending tragedy for the wts and jws.

the heavy-handed tactics of the leaders of the watchtower society have begun to bear rotten fruit.

i suspect that it is just a matter of time before the need arises to coin some phrase to describe disfellowshipped or disassociated jehovah's witnesses who bomb conventions, shoot up kingdom halls or even attack bethel facilities.. leaders of the wts (and local elders) should stop and think about the lessons to be learned from columbine high school, the postal service (i.e.

dungbeetle

Unfortunately, one lesson we've learned from Watchtower history is that Watchtower LOVES publicity--any kind of publicity.

Just picture JW's walking around the US and British streetcorners wearing signs that say: "Religion is a snare and a racket" and then whining when people were upset by them. Or better yet, placing literature calling Catholics 'dog's and 'bloodguilty'.

Just picture JW's from other countries writing Hitler a little note saying "Stop persecuting JW's or God will kill you and your Nazi party" (God did neither). It resulted in the deaths of 1000 German Jehovah's Witnesses.

Same for Malawi. I was part of that letter-writing campaign to the Malawian government, that resulted in deaths, torture and poverty for all the JW Malawians in that country. I will have to live with that the rest of my life. Thanks for NOTHING, WATCHTOWER.

And last but not least, my all-time favorite: 26 faces on the front of an Awake magazine. Children who had to choose between life-extending blood treatment and expulsion/shunning. Wow...how kind Watchtower is to its children..NOT!!

As Watchtower will say: "Let them pull our tax-exempt status!! Let the dissidents leave!! Let the public ignore us!! We are Watchtower!!!

Anything that goes wrong such as violence they can just blame on us, former and present members. <sigh>.

RUN WATCHTOWER RUN THE TAXMAN COMETH!!!

BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

12

MSNBC RE-AIRING of DATELINE:NEW STUFF

by dungbeetle in

here is the added material:.

stone phillips:(or john larsen).

in fact, anderson gave dateline a copy of this letter written in 1992 by a psycotherapist, a jehovah's witness himself, who said he'd treated many witnesses who'd told him they had been molested, and he had personally dealt with a number of elders who were more interested in suppressig a matter of abuse .

dungbeetle

I did a lot of editing, so double check what you have against this (I think, so far,) finished product.

Emperer, oh my God. It would be funny if it weren't for the fact that most of my posts involve Watchtower policies that are life and health and well-being threatening to persons and communities. <sigh>

If your copy and paste doesn't carry the colors over, then click on 'reply' and copy and paste from there. All the [r] and [b]will be taken with it, and although it will look funny, you will know what was added and deleted.

I think they did an admirable job taking and adding in material. I wouldn't have wanted to be in the editor's shoes when they had to make those decisions. What to take and what to leave, yeeks what a decision.

HATS OFF TO YA DATELINE.

BEFORE YOU TRY AND REMOVE THE STICK FROM MY ARSE, REMOVE THE TELEPHONE POLE FROM YOUR OWN ARSE.

12

MSNBC RE-AIRING of DATELINE:NEW STUFF

by dungbeetle in

here is the added material:.

stone phillips:(or john larsen).

in fact, anderson gave dateline a copy of this letter written in 1992 by a psycotherapist, a jehovah's witness himself, who said he'd treated many witnesses who'd told him they had been molested, and he had personally dealt with a number of elders who were more interested in suppressig a matter of abuse .

dungbeetle

Updated Transcript: Red was deleted, blue is additional, material

WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION

Stone Phillips: Good evening. At some point it may stop being news--each time another person comes forward to say they were sexually abused as a child by a trusted religious figure--but not yet, though tonight it's not priests under fire. In fact, our story began long before the Catholic Church scandal broke last January. The scenario of alleged abuse is much the same, but the consequences of coming forward, for people whose faith was the center of their lives, would be harsh and profound. Here's John Larson.

JOHN LARSON reporting:

In a small town like Othello, Washington, neighbors are often friends, and friends like family. Which makes the story you're about to hear even more painful. Because, for Erica Garza, who grew up here, there was no one closer, no one she trusted more than her parents' best friend.

Ms. ERICA GARZA: You would have never known by looking at him, or by the way he acted what he was doing on the side.

LARSON: (Voiceover) What that friend, Manuel Beliz, was doing was molesting Erica, sexually abusing her. She says it started when she was just five years old.

Ms. E. GARZA: I remember it just like it was yesterday.

LARSON: What was your reaction when he first started touching you?

Ms. E. GARZA: I didn't know any better.

(Voiceover) I just remember it hurt.

Ms. E. GARZA: Out of anything, I just remember the hurt.

(From home video) (Unintelligible)...my brother.

LARSON: (Voiceover) A hurt that grew, she says, because her molester pressured her to keep it all a secret. And while that may not be surprising, this isn't a story about a molester trying to stay in the shadows. This is a story about others who may have played a role not only in Erica's abuse, but the abuse of other victims as well.

Ms. E. GARZA: They didn't care about what had happened. Everything they did was trying to hide the facts.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Both Erica and her molester were members of the same church, Jehovah's Witnesses.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Jehovah's Witnesses are evangelical Christians best-known for going door-to-door handing out Awake! magazine. Jehovah's Witnesses have six million members worldwide, and some controversial rules--no birthdays or Christmas, no blood transfusions, no military service, no saluting the flag--all of which separates them, sometimes even isolates them from mainstream
America. In fact, in the world of Jehovah's Witnesses, anyone outside the church--most of you watching tonight--are considered part of Satan's world, a world which, as depicted in the church's literature, will be destroyed by God. True Jehovah's Witnesses, those who closely follow the church's rules, will survive to live forever on a perfect earth.

But now there are accusations that the church, run out of its headquarters in New York, called the Watchtower Society, is covering up cases of child molestation, protecting molesters and keeping secrets that put children at risk. Consider what happened to Erica Garza. By the time she was 16, Erica's family had moved away from Othello to a new home and new Kingdom Hall in California where one day she found the courage to tell her family her terrible secret. And what did her father, Reuben Garza do?

Report it to the police?

Mr. REUBEN GARZA: No. Never mentioned report it to the police.

(Voiceover) Take care of it in the congregation.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Reuben Garza, who was one of the church's lay ministers, or `elders,' says that's precisely what Jehovah's Witness leaders had taught him. And so instead of going to the police, he and his wife, Alexandra, called the elders back in Othello.

LARSON: But let me say the obvious. I mean, your daughter's been raped. Didn't you think, `I've got to go to the cops?'

Ms. ALEXANDRA GARZA: That was my first reaction. But as a Witness, first you've got to go to the elders when you have a problem.

LARSON: (Voiceover) But the elders didn't go to the police, either. Why? Well, legally, they didn't have to. Only 16 states require clergy members to report any and all suspected child abuse, and Washington state is not one of them. Instead, church elders opened their own internal investigation. It's one of the things that sets Jehovah's Witnesses apart from most other religious groups. The church has its own judicial system.

LARSON: Whenever a church member is accused of doing something wrong--whether it's breaking a church rule like smoking, committing a sin like adultery, or even committing a crime like rape--the local church appoints a special committee of elders to investigate the charge. Now, if the accused is found guilty, they can be reprimanded or, in worst cases, kicked out of the church, disfellowshipped, potentially cut off from their friends and family, losing their chance, they believe, at everlasting life. For a Jehovah's Witness,
there can be no greater punishment.

(Voiceover) Erica Garza expected her molester would, at the very least, be disfellowshipped. But after five months of waiting for the church in Othello to act, she got angry and did the unthinkable.

Ms. E. GARZA: So I called my elders and I said, `Look, I'm taking it to the police.'

LARSON: What did they say?

Ms. E. GARZA: `Don't. Or else.'

LARSON: Or else what?

Ms. E. GARZA: That's what I said. I said, `Or else what?' And he said, `Just don't.' I said, `What? I'll be disfellowshipped if I take it to the police? Is that what's going to happen to me?' And he said, `Yes. You will be disfellowshipped.' And I was just, like, `What? You're going to disfellowship me for being raped, yet the guy who raped me is still a Jehovah's Witness?' And they said, `Don't. Don't take it to the police. You will be condemned by
God.'

LARSON: (Voiceover) It was October 1996, and Erica says she finally decided whatever the penalty, she had to go to the police. Following an investigation, Manuel Beliz was charged with molestation and rape.

And the church? Erica says her California Kingdom Hall not only shunned her, but shunned her family as well.

LARSON: What happened?

Mr. GARZA: Was removed as an elder.

LARSON: So they kicked you out.

Mr. GARZA: Yes, they did.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Erica felt abused, abandoned by her church and alone. But what she couldn't have known was that it would be four more years before another Jehovah's Witness, this time, an elder 2,000 miles away, would take a special interest in Erica's case. The elder had uncovered evidence, he says, that there were many more victims like Erica within Witness Kingdom Halls. And now he, too, was about to break with the church and go outside into what
Witnesses believe is the realm of Satan--the outside world--to expose the church's secrets.

LARSON: You talking to me right now, it's like you're talking to Satan.

Mr. BILL BOWEN: That's correct. I'm attacking God, is what they've said about it.

LARSON: In the view of the church, sitting down with us right now.

Mr. BOWEN: Yes.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Bill Bowen is a candle maker in Kentucky, and a lifelong Jehovah's Witness. It all began, he says, about two years ago when he was filing confidential church records at the local Kingdom Hall and stumbled on this letter. It described an admission dating back to the 1980s, a molestation case that he says the church had swept under the rug.

LARSON: About how old was this child that was involved in this case?

Mr. BOWEN: As I reviewed the material, it appeared to me she was about 11 years of age.

LARSON: (Voiceover) And the admitted molester? A man Bowen knew well, a fellow elder who got only a slap on the wrist from the church and was never reported to police. Outraged, Bowen put a message on the Internet to see if there were other similar cases. The response, he says, was an avalanche of pain and frustration.

Mr. BOWEN: These were all Jehovah's Witnesses that had been molested and silenced within the church.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Bill Bowen is not saying Jehovah's Witnesses have more molesters than any other religious group. The problem, he says, is how the church handles the cases that come to its attention. Like the case of Daniel Fitzwater, a Jehovah's Witness elder in Nevada. Bowen discovered that according to the church's own internal records, church officials knew of 17 girls who had accused Fitzwater of molesting them. But police say the church never passed that information on to them.

Bowen also learned that in New Hampshire Paul Berry beat and sexually tortured his step-daughter, Holly Brewer, from the time she was four. But Holly's mother says that when she complained to church elders that Berry was beating Holly and her other kids, the elders told her to be a better wife and to pray more. She also says they never informed police as required by state law. The church denies that, saying she never told them of the abuse. Holly later ran
away from home and says she disfigured herself with tattoos and piercings in response to the abuse.

Ms. HOLLY BREWER: It started out by me internalizing the pain. It really did. It started by me, `I want to mess myself up. I want to make myself look as ugly I can ***(as spoken)***. I don't want any guys to hit on me. I don't want to be attractive to people.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Both Paul Berry in New Hampshire and Daniel Fitzwater in Nevada ultimately were convicted of sexual crimes and are now in prison. But Bill Bowen says many others in the church accused of sexual abuse have never been reported to police. It's a claim he says he's heard, though not verified, from several hundred current and former church members. His conclusion:
disturbing to day the least.

(Photos of Berry and Fitzwater; Bowen talking to reporter; text on computer screen)

Mr. BOWEN: It's a pedophile paradise within the organization. I believe that.

LARSON: What's the danger that you've been consumed by this to the point that--that you've blown it all out of proportion? I mean pedophile paradise? Come on.

Mr. BOWEN: I believe it with all my heart.

(Voiceover) There is a massive problem in the organization.

(Bowen)

LARSON: (Voiceover) But Bill Bowen is just one man in one congregation in Kentucky. This woman, Barbara Anderson, worked for a decade inside Jehovah's Witness headquarters. When Anderson saw Bowen's messages on the Internet, she says she realized she had to tell him there was much more to the story, involving children in many of the 11,000 congregations across the country.

Ms. BARBARA ANDERSON: I don't believe that they're safe within their church.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Anderson was a researcher at the Watchtower Society in the early 1990s when a senior official there asked her to look into the church's handling of sexual abuse cases. What she found, she says, sickened her: hundreds of molestation cases on record, all kept secret in church files--secret not only from the outside world, but from the members themselves, the families, the mothers and fathers and children who trust the church is looking out for them.

Ms. ANDERSON: I believe that if they asked to see the congregation records, they will find that there are many envelopes with letters that discuss men--or women--in the congregation that were accused of molesting a child.

In fact, Anderson gave Dateline a copy of this letter written in 1992 by a psycotherapist, a Jehovah's Witness himself, who said he'd treated many Witnesses who'd told him they had been molested, and he had personally dealt with a number of elders who were more interested in suppressig a matter of abuse

John Larsen: Did the research that you did, talking to these therapists and psychiatrists, and the victims themselves, did it change the way you thought about the church and what was going on behind closed doors?

Barbara Anderson: Yes, because the Watchtower Society didn't want to acknowledge that these girls were telling the truth because they were accusing elders of molesting them.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Why would the church want to keep these cases secret and in-house? Anderson agrees that part of the problem is the church's distrust of the outside world, but she says it's not that simple. Anderson says when church elders investigate crimes like child molestation, they follow instructions that may prevent them from taking action--ancient instructions taken from the Bible itself.

Ms. ANDERSON: They basically use a scripture in I Timothy 5:19 that states you're not to make an accusation against an older man unless there are two or three witnesses.

LARSON: What are the odds that there are going to be two or three witnesses to an older man molesting a eight-year-old girl?

Ms. ANDERSON: No molester is going to have any witnesses, that's for sure.

Mr. BOWEN: The sum and total of their investigation will be going to a pedophile and saying, `Did you do it? Nope? Well, OK. Guess we'd better go on then. Sorry we bothered you.'

(Talking on phone) Did he ask you any questions?

LARSON: (Voiceover) Bill Bowen says if you want to get an idea of how the church sweeps cases under the rug...

Headquarters #1: (On phone) Good afternoon, Watchtower.

LARSON: (Voiceover) ...just listen to part of a conversation Bowen recorded a little over a year ago with an official in the Jehovah's Witness legal department.

(New York City)

Headquarters Receptionist: (On phone) Good afternoon, Legal Department.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Bowen calls seeking advice on how to handle a suspected molestation case involving a young girl and her father. Instead of being told to report it to the police, Bowen is told to confront the suspected abuser.

Headquarters #2: (On phone) You just ask him again, `Now is there anything to this?' If he says `No,' then I would walk away from it.

Mr. BOWEN: (On phone) Yup.

Headquarters #2: (On phone) Leave it for Jehovah. He'll bring it out.

Mr. BOWEN: (On phone) Yup.

Headquarters #2: (On phone) But don't get yourself in a jam.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Again, there was no insistence that this matter be brought to the authorities in the outside world. Bowen says he was so upset by the whole case he resigned as a church elder and vowed to help abuse victims. He didn't know that halfway across the country, Erica Garza as feeling the same frustration as she prepared to face her molester in court.

LARSON: Did any of those elders, any of the people in the church stand up and speak on your behalf?

Ms. E. GARZA: No.

LARSON: (Voiceover) But Erica Garza was about to find out that she wasn't really all alone.

STONE PHILLIPS: She was just five years old when she says she was first molested by a respected member of her Jehovah's Witnesses congregation. Now a young woman, Erica Garza wants justice. She says church leaders threatened to expel her if she went to police, but she went anyway and now her alleged attacker is on trial for molestation and rape. Here with the conclusion to our story, John Larson.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Erica Garza's accused molester, Manuel Beliz, showed up in court with plenty of support.

Ms. GARZA: (Voiceover) His side was full of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Ms. GARZA: People I thought were my friends, but they were there to support him. And on my side was my family.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Even though Beliz had apparently confessed his crimes before church elders, it appeared to make little difference. He was expelled from the church, but only temporarily. Elders allowed him to rejoin the church before the trial. John White, the congregation's top elder, explained at a court hearing.

Mr. JOHN WHITE: (From audio tape) We're satisfied that he was repentant and could be admitted to the congregation again. To us, we don't see a problem.

LARSON: (Voiceover) White also told the court that when a church member is called before the elders and admits to a crime, they consider it a religious confession and, just like a priest or rabbi, he and other elders have good reason not to testify about it in court.

Mr. WHITE: (From audio tape) Jehovah's Witnesses do not want to harbor criminals or dangerous people. But we want the confidentiality because if that's taken away from us, why should a person ever confess anything?

LARSON: Did anybody say, `We understand the pain that this girl has gone through?'

Ms. E. GARZA: They say we--they feel sorry for me.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Even without the church's help or the testimony of elders who, Erica says, knew what had happened, in August of 1998 Manuel Beliz was convicted, guilty on two counts of rape and two counts of child molestation. He was sentenced to 11 1/2 years in prison, but two years into his term, his conviction was overturned on a technicality over how the jury had been selected. Erica had stood up, faced her abuser, even challenged her church, but now he was being let out of prison.

Ms. E. GARZA: I was so disappointed, I was sad, I was heartbroken and I didn't know what to do.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Manuel Beliz was released from prison to await a new trial. Last summer DATELINE found him back at the Kingdom Hall, about to join others going door-to-door, evangelizing for the church.

Ms. E. GARZA: It just makes me so sad because I was raped and I was--I'm being shunned, and he raped me and--and he's being loved. It just--it--it gives me chills up my spine just to think about it.

LARSON: (Voiceover) How do Jehovah's Witness leaders respond to complaints that they're trying to bury cases like Erica's? They declined our request for an on-camera interview, but spoke to us off camera, and provided us with a videotaped policy statement by spokesman J.R. Brown.

Mr. J.R. BROWN: (From videotape) Jehovah's Witnesses feel child abuse is an evil. It's an evil of our time, it's an evil in our society and so we abhor it.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Church officials say they publish articles like this, educating members and training elders how to help abuse victims. The church also says elders are required to investigate any allegations of abuse, and steps are taken to protect alleged victims from further abuse. And while officials acknowledge that molesters who repent are readmitted to the church, they say known molesters are not allowed to hold a position of responsibility within the church. They also insist that the church complies with all laws on reporting abuse in those states where it's required, even when there's only one witness to the crimes. But in states where churches are not required to report, they say they do not discourage victims from reporting abuse to authorities.

Mr. BROWN: (From videotape) When it comes to the matter of reporting, then that's something the parents can decide. We certainly never tell them not to report a case of child molestation.

LARSON: (Voiceover) In a letter to DATELINE, the church's general council adds that "it is possible that a few of the 77,799 elders of Jehovah's Witnesses have not followed the direction that they have been given regarding investigating and reporting child abuse."

LARSON: What remains unanswered, though, is why the church gets involved at all with investigating what are criminal matters. And just how often do they turn one of their own into authorities? We asked the church for some examples, proof that they're as tough as they say they are on members who abuse children. The church waited six months, but finally offered us two cases. And right away
we noticed something. In both cases, the victims were Jehovah's Witnesses, but their alleged molesters were not. They were non-believers from outside the church.

(Voiceover) In fact, we could only find two cases where the church took an active role in turning in one of its own, including the case of this man, Clement Pandello.

Offscreen Voice: Mr. Pandello...

LARSON: (Voiceover) Pandello, seen here in family videos...

Unidentified Girl: (From home video) ...in the middle.

LARSON: (Voiceover) ..confessed to church elders he'd molested his own granddaughter.

Mr. CLEMENT PANDELLO: (From video) Have to kick you out of school if they put one in your head.

LARSON: (Voiceover) How did the church handle it? The parents of the young victim, Pandello's own son and daughter-in-law, also Jehovah's Witnesses, told DATELINE the church pressured them to agree to a deal in which Pandello pled guilty to criminal sexual contact and endangering the welfare of a child. He was given only probation, no jail time. And what did the church elders tell Barbara and Carl Pandello?

Mr. CARL PANDELLO: We should just let it go, that it's not Jehovah's time to deal with it.

LARSON: (Voiceover) The church says that's not true, and the church apparently did disfellowship Clement Pandello two separate times. But each time they welcomed him back. So where is this convicted child molester today, a man who, according to court records, has admitted molesting girls all his life?

DATELINE found him going door-to-door, a Jehovah's Witness in good standing, evangelizing to people who know nothing about his record. His own son, Carl, says the church should know better.

Mr. CARL PANDELLO: He's a sexual predator. When he goes door-to-door, he has a craving for young, juvenile girls, as he puts it. He's looking at that child, having those immoral thoughts in his mind while he's there.

LARSON: You know the church now says they don't have a special problem. It's a societal problem and they do everything they can to stop pedophiles from hurting children within the Jehovah's Witness church. What do you say to them?

Ms. E. GARZA: Liars.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Even though her accused rapist had been freed on a technicality, Erica Garza was not about to let him off the hook. Last summer, nearly five years after she first came forward, Erica headed back to court. Once again, not one Jehovah's Witness from her former church came to support her. But this time, she wasn't alone.

Mr. BOWEN: ...comments we've made from all over the country...

LARSON: (Voiceover) That out-spoken elder from Kentucky, Bill Bowen, was there.

(Erica talking to Bowen)

Mr. BOWEN: Just to even things.

LARSON: (Voiceover) And Bowen had set up a new support group for sexually abused Jehovah's Witnesses. And more than 20 people who had heard about the case through his Web site were there to support Erica.

Ms. GARZA: Thank you, everybody, for being here.

These are people who don't know me, who flew from all over the place for me, to be there for me because they realize, `Hey, you didn't do anything wrong.' And it was so encouraging to see people there for me...

(Voiceover) ...as opposed for him.

LARSON: (Voiceover) In court, Manuel Beliz took the stand. He denied molesting Erica, but did admit touching her inappropriately. Once again, Beliz was found guilty.

Ms. E. GARZA: Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Erica Garza says she has found justice in spite of her church.

Ms. E. GARZA: Oh, I can't believe it. On all four counts.

Mr. GARZA: Just a little bit of justice. You deserve it.

Ms. E. GARZA: Thank you, God. Thank you, Lord.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Her molester has been sent to prison for 11 1/2 years.

Ms. E. GARZA: Thank you for all your help, Bill.

Mr. BOWEN: Everything's over.

Ms. ANDERSON: You'll sleep well tonight, won't you?

Ms. E. GARZA: Yeah.

LARSON: (Voiceover) All Erica wants now, she says, is for the church to change its policy and give molestation victims simple advice.

Ms. E. GARZA: `Take it to the police.' Hey, encourage me to take it to the police. Don't tell me not to.

PHILLIPS: Erica Garza and Holly Brewer are both suing the Watchtower Society and their local congregations. The church is fighting the lawsuits. The church also told NBC news that while some known pedophiles still go door-to-door, they are not allowed to do alone.

Finally, four of the people DATELINE interviewed--former Elder Bill Bowen, Barbara Anderson and Carl and Barbara Pandello--are facing possible expulsion from their congregations.

12

MSNBC RE-AIRING of DATELINE:NEW STUFF

by dungbeetle in

here is the added material:.

stone phillips:(or john larsen).

in fact, anderson gave dateline a copy of this letter written in 1992 by a psycotherapist, a jehovah's witness himself, who said he'd treated many witnesses who'd told him they had been molested, and he had personally dealt with a number of elders who were more interested in suppressig a matter of abuse .

dungbeetle

comments anyone?