lalliv said: Yes; baptised in 1957 at the age of 11. Was a school servant until the elder arrangement came about at which time I was appointed as an elder in a spanish language cong. Later I attended English languge cong. for my kids benefit, was appointed elder there. Later, went back to spanish language cong. and was an elder there. Was a PO in both congs. and I can tell you, there is no special power or authority with that position, you're just a bigger target. Wife and I quit in 1989. We have been living a quiet and wonderful life. We quit because there is a lot of envy and jealousy there and because it seems like they're all spying on one another, ready to turn you in. My wife used to get so angry when I would tell her that a the elder meeting it was brought to my attention that one of my kids was seen singing thanksgiving (or other holiday) songs in school. That used to burn her up. She would say,"these nosy people ought to mind their own children and business and leave my family be, we don't go around snitching on other peoples kids, or tell our kids to spy on other witness kids! " She was baptised at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena in 1963. We married in 1964 (so young and naive) but we're still together. She's my best friend. She knows everything there is to know about me and vice-versa. We just quit and we told all to leave us in peace, alone. We don't bother anyone and we don't want anyone bothering us. We are in peaceful terms with everyone and they are friendly and respectful with us. Once in while, one will ask when we're coming back. There would have to be some big,big changes for me to even consider it. I'm just learning how to get around a computer. I think it's gonna give me ulcers, it makes me so angry. Just kidding about the ulcers,life is too good for that. | |
Lalliv, So you were baptized in 1957 and were an elder in the Spanish cong. as well as English? My husband and I were in the first Spanish congregation in the San Diego area in the early 60s. He was a servant (elder) from 1947 until just before we left in 1983. So glad to hear that you and your wife left at the same time. It is so much easier. I see a lot of posters here who still have mates in and somethimes it is heartbreaking to hear what they are going through. Joe was food overseer for the Spanish in 1963 at the Pasadena convention. Did you live in So. Cal? Are you still there? Its good that you can still speak to the witnesses. We are so well known in the Sacramento area that if they know who we are they will not speak to us. Even if we just say our last name, they may not know us personally, but our name is enough. We are the notorious "apostates" of the Sacramento Valley. What do you believe now? I am seeing so many XJWs who have given up on God and are either agnostic or atheist. It is a shame that when an organization claims to be "God's representative" and abuses people, that God takes the rap for their behavior. When we left the org., we did not go to church for a while, but have tried 3 in the past 15 years. Now we just live our lives and serve God without any organized religion. There is a lot of politics and control in every one. We are a lot happier now. So good to hear about your experiences. Love and hugs, Velta | |
Eliveleth
JoinedPosts by Eliveleth
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60
Jesus is the answer!
by startingover ini hope it worked.
my intent with the title of this thread was to attract both believers and non-believers.
whenever a thread appears promoting the wonders of jesus, it will inevitably develop into a back and forth discussion ad nauseam.. i was born into a family that believed there was a god, he had a son jesus and his word was the bible.
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Eliveleth
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Visit from my mom, oh the joy.
by RollerDave ini realize it's been a while since i spun a good yarn, but the past few days i have had my mom staying with us, and that is enough to fuel a yarn if anything ever was.. it starts last week when my sister, mrs po was over at mom's trying to discover why mom's pc seems to randomly shut itself off for no apparent reason.
i imagine she scoured the house for garage sale items with attached legions of demons or mischievous smurf dolls before noticing a correlation between the ancient prehistoric freezer mom has switching on or off, and the lights dimming and the pc simply going poof.. but it couldn't be this pleistocene menace freezer that is the problems, it has to be the top-end pc i built mom.. please excuse me while i roll my eyes and peer at the back of my skull for a moment or two..... there.. anyhoo, it gets decided that i'll come out and pick mom up along with her pc and bring the both of them back to my house for a few days.. not decided by me mind you, but decided nonetheless.. i mean, i've got a giant truck that chugs gas as if from a fire hose and an electric scooter to ride up to mom's door, why shouldn't i go collect her, haul all her stuff to the truck, load it, help her climb up into the truck and then load my scooter?.
all from the back of my scooter, mind you.
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Eliveleth
OMG I had a MIL like that. We have running stories in our family of things she said. My kids are beginning to stock up stories about me that will
remain until the next generation. If we don't laugh about it, we will kill them. or they will kill us. hee hee Hang in there Roller Dave.
Love and hugs,
Velta
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60
Jesus is the answer!
by startingover ini hope it worked.
my intent with the title of this thread was to attract both believers and non-believers.
whenever a thread appears promoting the wonders of jesus, it will inevitably develop into a back and forth discussion ad nauseam.. i was born into a family that believed there was a god, he had a son jesus and his word was the bible.
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Eliveleth
Why would you think I am discrediting you? I just gave my thoughts about what I believe. I know I can't offer any proof, but I have faith in the chocolate dragon. It's almost like you don't respect that. If you don't want people to attack your faith in God, you need to refrain from doing the same to my beliefs. I know they sound silly to you, but I can't help that. If you'd had a personal testimony as I have maybe you would understand.
Please respect my faith.
Serotonin, Please share your personal testimony. I want to understand. Love and hugs, Velta
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60
Jesus is the answer!
by startingover ini hope it worked.
my intent with the title of this thread was to attract both believers and non-believers.
whenever a thread appears promoting the wonders of jesus, it will inevitably develop into a back and forth discussion ad nauseam.. i was born into a family that believed there was a god, he had a son jesus and his word was the bible.
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Eliveleth
And I agree with you, a person can
be a sincere,dedicated scientist,believe or at least confide in the evidence, and still
search for the cause of it all. You believe in Jesus, others have a different believe,
so what? Like you said, what have you got to lose? Whose stomach is upset because
of what I believe? I hope nobody. And yet,people hate,even kill because of others beliefs.
Pity. Who is the loser, the hater or the hated?
Lalliv
Thank you Lalliv, for your kind words.
I think that everyone in the world has a slightly different belief. I have found no one to this date that believes exactly the way I do. And next year because of what I have learned, it will be a little different as well. Yes, people hate because of their beliefs. I do not understand this, but I know it is true. We are all losers when people are not tolerant. I hope we will get an opportunity to exchange views. Were you a JW? Have you posted your story yet? Our website is: www.geocities.com/veliveleth
Love and hugs,
Velta
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60
Jesus is the answer!
by startingover ini hope it worked.
my intent with the title of this thread was to attract both believers and non-believers.
whenever a thread appears promoting the wonders of jesus, it will inevitably develop into a back and forth discussion ad nauseam.. i was born into a family that believed there was a god, he had a son jesus and his word was the bible.
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Eliveleth
(Continued from last post)
I think you should go back and read my post again. I DID NOT SAY that my belief in God caused me to not want a cure for cancer to be found. In fact, I support mentally and financially organizations that are looking. I DID NOT SAY that if I didn't believe in God that I (or anyone else) would be a bad person. I am not sitting around putting my life on hold because I am waiting for God's Kingdom. I DO NOT BELIEVE that homosexuals are bad persons. In fact, my daughter is a lesbian and she and her partner live in my house. I do not judge, I do not believe it is my place to do so. I accept and love people unconditionally. I may disagree with what they believe,but I do not reject them.
You are assuming that I believe things that I do not. You cannot categorize Christians. We do not all believe alike. Aside from believing that Jesus is the Son of God and came to earth to die for our sins, there may be many things that we believe differently. Your experience with Christians may have led you to believe that, but each person is free to interpret the Bible according to their thoughts. I believe that unless you allow Holy Spirit to interpret God's word, you can take anything out of context. THIS IS MY BELIEF.
You asked me to research evolution and abiogenesis and I did. I think perhaps you should do a little research of your own as to what different Christians really believe and not assume that all of us are the same.
This post was not worthy of you.
Love and hugs,
Velta
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60
Jesus is the answer!
by startingover ini hope it worked.
my intent with the title of this thread was to attract both believers and non-believers.
whenever a thread appears promoting the wonders of jesus, it will inevitably develop into a back and forth discussion ad nauseam.. i was born into a family that believed there was a god, he had a son jesus and his word was the bible.
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Eliveleth
Serotonin said: A chocolate dragon made everything. The universe, the planets and us. When times are hard he breathes the fire of goodness (which is invisible and doesn't burn) all over us to make us feel happy. When we die we may end up with him in the magical kingdom, IF we believe in him now. If we don't, we will burn forever in his pit of fire (the usual kind, not to be confused with the fire of goodness). The chocolate dragon has a set of rules that have to be followed. He thinks homosexuals are living a bad life and they will be punished. You can't be gay, you can't even fight for equal rights for gays- like letting them get married, otherwise you'll be bad too. If scientists teach that evolution is real, you should not embrace their ideas, you have to believe the chocolate dragon made us. Tell your children this too. There's no point looking for the cure to cancer, because one day the chocolate dragon will come to Earth and fix all our problems. It's better to talk to the chocolate dragon every night before you go to sleep, and even though he doesn't answer, he listens. You have my guarantee. If you believe in the chocolate dragon, life seems better. As everyone knows, you can't be good to people without the fire of goodness. Without that, you wouldn't know how to act well to other people, you would be very bad indeed. If there is no magical kingdom when we die, then what is the point of life? It gives people hope.
So that's why I believe in the chocolate dragon, and you should all look into the idea too. What have you got to lose?
Serotonin,
When a person leaves the Watchtower (or are disfellowshipped) they are at a very vulnerable place. They have just lost all their friends and loved ones who are still in the organization and have discovered that the Watchtower is not God's organization or are questioning. Because they are discovering this, their beliefs are not unclear and they are trying to find a way.
When I first left, I was very timid about expressing what I believed. I think there are a lot of perple, Jehovah's Witnesses or those newly out, that come to this site for answers, encouragement or comfort that they have done the right thing and not "left Jehovah". This may not seem important if you have never been there, but these people are hurting, dissolusioned, scared. I know because I was there. My husband and I left 24 years ago. I still remember my state of mind.
When I first visited this site, maybe in the mid-nineties, I only posted little innocuous things like: "Hi, welcome to the board". I was scared that I I said what I believed that I woulkd be attacked. Being in the WT makes you paranoid. These lurkers are out there watching. They are vulnerable, not knowing how they will be received. If I had seen or received this post when I was newly out, I would have run like a scared rabbit. You obviously have never been a Jehovah's Witness, Serotonin, or you would know what I mean. This should be a place where you can express your views without feeling that you will be ridiculed or insulted because of what you believe.
Some Jehovah's Witnesses who come here trying to discredit those who believe in the trinity or evolution use these tactics. It should not be this way. People should not be hurt or discouraged because someone has an agenda.
I (This has become longer than I intended, please go to next post)
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60
Jesus is the answer!
by startingover ini hope it worked.
my intent with the title of this thread was to attract both believers and non-believers.
whenever a thread appears promoting the wonders of jesus, it will inevitably develop into a back and forth discussion ad nauseam.. i was born into a family that believed there was a god, he had a son jesus and his word was the bible.
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Eliveleth
lalliv01 said:The agnostics and atheists on this site have much reason,
logic and current science on their side and I learn much from their statements and
rhetorical questions that make me think. However, I can't bring myself to believe that
this beautiful planet we inhabit came about without an intelligent and caring Creator.
I need to know who or what made all the atoms (or quarks) in the universe.
My thoughts are very much like lalliv's in this area. The posters on this site have given me a lot to think about and research. My faith has been strengthened by it. There may be no logic in having faith, but there are a lot of logical things that strengthen what I believe in the way of a Creator. What if Jesus is the answer to living forever? By believing this what have I lost? What have I gained? I live my life the same. I believe that one should live a life that does good to others. If Jesus is real and he says that because he came to earth and died and was resurrected, I can live forever, I find comfort in that. It gives me hope. It gives me a reason to get up in the morning when I am in pain. To not give up when I see so much unkindness and injustice in the world. When I reach the end of my life and find there is no afterlife (but if there is none then I will never know) I have changed nothing. I will have lived my life the way I believed was right. I have loved and have been loved. Is there any more to this life than that? To reach the end and be content with everything you have done? To have no regrets?
What if I am wrong? What have I lost by believing that Jesus was/is real and following his teachings? My life has been and is based on the Bible and the principles that Jesus taught. I think it has made me a better person.
There appears to be a historical record that Jesus lived. http://sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html If he was real, then perhaps what he said was real also.
I do not believe in trying to change anyone's ideas as to whether to believe in God or not. I do not believe that you can change a person by what you say. I do not believe in trying to "convert" others to my beliefs. A person can have "facts" presented to them, then it is up to them to prove them for himself.
As to what others say convincing you that what you believe is not true, I do not think that happens.When I was a JW I thought it was ridiculous that we could not read anything "apostate" because it might "turn us away from the "truth"". I still feel that way. If I did not believe that I would not be on this site. If my faith can be challenged just by what a person says, then my faith was weak to begin with. I believe that it takes more than words to change a person's belief. I believe that each person should be open to hearing both sides of a question. Leaving the WT was not because of what a person or persons told me or what I found out about the WT on the Internet. It was what I found out by asking for Holy Spirit that changed me. For those who do not believe there is a Holy Spirit, I challenge you to ask and find out. What have you got to lose?
Love and hugs,
Velta
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new member
by christian2007 injust introducing myself to all the friends.
i am a new member to this forum and i'm just popping in to say hello to you all and "checking in".
i like to write in forums and have gotten in trouble in some because of my adamance in denying the doctrine of the trinity.
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Eliveleth
Welcome, Christian,
Hope you are not too sensitive. If you are your are in for a bumpy ride..
Love and hugs,
Velta
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not scared anymore
by 4digitcode ini posted my pic.
(well part of it at least (am a bit shy still...) because i am not scared to be found out anymore.
mind you i've been df'ed for nearly a year now but still had hope 'friends' would remember we were like family and realize they couldn't possibly live the rest of their lives without talking to me again....ha!
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Eliveleth
4digitcode,
So glad that you are not scared anymore. It is a wonderful thing - freedom! Welcome! You will get a lot of different viewpoints on this website. I found out a long time ago that no matter what you do or say it is not going to change those who are shunning you because you are disfellowshipped. What you say or do will not make it better or worse. You might just as well do what you want to do! We are notorious apostates in our area. If you mention our name to a Witness who comes to your door, you will get a reaction. Being labelled apostate by JWs is a badge of honor.
Looking forward to hearing your story.
Love and hugs,
Velta
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Why use the word apostate?
by greendawn inwhy should we define ourselves by what the fds defines us?
our enemies who seek emotional control over us even after we left their destructive cult have invested a lot of effort to demonize us with the word apostate and when we use the term ourselves we do their work for them.
most so called apostates simply thought about things deeply and came up with many questions that the jws instead of answering in a logical manner labelled these inquiring minds as demon inspired apostates doubting the god appointed fds and expelled them from their org.
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Eliveleth
I agree with Gopher and onthewayout: I love us apostates. It means we have abandoned the control of the WT and are able to think for ourselves and worship God the way we see Him from the Bible. I was also called a "Jezebel", because my family got out of the WT too and according to them it was because of my "wicked" influence. I wear that name as a badge of honor also. It is in the nature of the WT to call us names and try to still control us. I praise God that I no longer care what they think about me or call me. I AM FREE!!!!!
Love and hugs,
Velta