facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
SlimBoyFat—The US did melt the civilians in Fallujah into goo with white phosphorous. That’s a fact.
Our soldiers simply followed orders. That stuff was not supposed to be used except in certain cases. It wasn’t classified as chemical weapon but it was illegal to use in the vicinity of civilians because everyone knew what it would do.
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
It is indeed a civil war, luhe. It would take a lot of research to sort out the the politics of it all— I read some back ground on it. But it is a civil war and l believe the UN stays out of those. Even when there were the first demonstrations in Syria against Assad and violence broke out the US stayed out. Why? If it was a civil war their policy was to stay out of another country’s civil war.
One thing is clear, however. By selling arms to one side and not the other in the case of Yemen, the US wasn’t neutral. The US can’t claim that it was merely being a “gun shop” and wash the blood off.
Come to think —don’t we have laws requiring back ground checks here in the U S? Our gun laws do not allow the sale of guns to those convicted of domestic violence. My point has been that the US is not being governed by principles but by Big Money. There are many more than the Yemenis who are noting our self-serving behavior.
the 25th april is the day australia and new zealand remember their war dead.. on the 25th april 1915 troops from many nations including australian and new zealanders landed on the shores of turkey.
the anzac forces at a place called gallipoli or galliboli by the turkish people.. the concept was to land move inland attack constantinople and there by force turkey out of the war (1914-1918) and bring it too a swift end.
the whole operation was a monumental stuff up with the anzacs being landed in the wrong place up against steep cliffs.
I got educated about it, zeb. From some few remarks l read of Turks the ANZAC drew admiration from them for their bravery and grit. But what a loss. A tragedy.
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
From The Guardian June 19,2017
“Paul, an anti-interventionist Republican pushing the resolution(to require congress to vote on -what amounts to-war), railed against the senators who were more concerned about the jobs the weapons manufacturers could generate than the lives of Yemeni children. “I am embarrassed that people are talking about making a buck while 17 million people are threatened with famine,” he said.
He didn’t mention that many of the senators, Democrats and Republicans alike, have taken tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from the same corporations benefitting from the sales.”
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
Luhe- sorry for a huge copy and paste. But here is why we can’t let the industrial military complex run the world
We're in an era where financial and political transactions are far too sophisticated and subtle for us to pull out the "War Profiteering" label and have it stick.
Let's call it what it is: Crony Capitalism
________
I agree with the facts of Gary Teal's response, if not the analysis.
Cheney, as former CEO of Halliburton, did have a severance package which included a set amount in deferred cash compensation, as will as over 400,000 shares in stock options. This is common practice for CEOs of major corporations, whether or not they are about to be vice president.
When he became vice president, Cheney was not legally required to sever his financial interests with Halliburton (the Vice President is not subject to conflict of interest regulations). However, it'd be bad form (and a media nightmare) to keep these direct ties.
In an attempt to avoid the appearance of a conflict, Cheney signed a legal agreement stating that all post-tax benefits received from exercising the stock options would be donated to charity. (In addition to the 20% going to Capital Partners for Education, as mentioned by Gary; 40% would go to George Washington University's medical faculty and 40% to the University of Wyoming). It also said that he would not take a tax deduction for these charitable contributions.
While it's possible that altruism was one of the motivating factors behind purchasing insurance guaranteeing the charity would receive the income, regardless of whether Halliburton was solvent -- More likely the primarily motivating factor was in closing any perceived loopholes in the "conflict of interest" case: no matter what events happened later (or what events Cheney might cause to happen later), X amount of money was guaranteed to go to Y causes.**
In short, this was very carefully crafted to ensure that "not a penny" went directly from Halliburton into Cheney's pockets.
______
I also agree with the facts of Christopher Rodreguez's response, if not the analysis.
While Cheney didn't make anything off of Halliburton due to the occupation of Iraq, as Christopher outlines Halliburton and KBR certainly made out quite well thanks to the policies of the Bush Administration and Cheney's influence in energy and defense policy.
In fact, the whole military/defense and energy sectors made out quite well due to Iraq war and post-war reconstruction contracts.
Anyone who is an executive in, who is heavily invested in, or who is otherwise affiliated with the private/political revolving door in the defense sector personally profited. This includes Cheney -- as well as members of Cheney's family, his business associates, executives at Halliburton, their families, their business associates ... and so on and so on. This isn't "evil" -- it's "just business and politics."
As is usually the case, the exact amount of profit depends on the level of wealth invested, and the contacts available to leverage for ... political donations, new business contracts, board seats, etc.
______
I have no love for Cheney. But trying to connect the dots from Cheney ... Direct Cash Profit is a no-go.
Plenty of people, with varying levels of direct and indirect political influence, profited from the wars: Republicans, Democrats, lobbyists, contractors, corporate fat cats. It's not a simple sound-byte super-villain scenario. Cheney is the easiest-to-spot target -- but he's playing by the rules of a much bigger game that started long before he entered the scene.
It's a layer of corruption deeply embedded within our government, that allows (and expects) wealthy corporate-connected folks look out for the interests and profits of their wealthy corporate-connected friends (and donors).
_______
** It is worth noting that the independent Congressional Research Service stated that receiving deferred compensation and holding stock options constitutes a "financial interest", regardless.K
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
That is an idea that of course comes to mind, luhe. But don’t you think it would be good to secure peace after reducing liberated areas to rubble and destitution? If the only method you have for fighting evil is destruction and death it is hard to hold the ground you gain in war.
There is no incentive for arms manufacturers to lobby for an end of oppression, war, conflict. They have lobbyists in Washington. I wonder why?
“If all you have in your toolbox is a hammer then everything begins to look like a nail.”
Ruby mentioned structural violence and inequality being examined as somefacts to face. Lively folk will not put up with structural violence and inequality forever. If those who hold power don’t care to examine the validity of claims of this abuse ,and no peaceful redress is available, people “misbehave”.
But to be clear I am absolutely opposed to the industrial military complex running the world.
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
Good morning, Ruby. Thanks. He was a really honest man.
I know you’re at work- and l am going to market. Would you explain more what you meant in this:
and what about structural violence and inequality - the UK and the USA trail behind many African states, Eastern and Western Europe.
zeb- good question about racing for money. Eventually this pursuit will eat up every thing and every one, sooner or later. Money is the means to achieve goals. There is madness and death when money is both the means AND the end —that doesn’t even describe capitalism, does it?
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
RubaDub— Even if a fellow volunteers for war and knows the danger—he still wants to live.
My dad was not a “gung -ho” fellow. Respectful of what you say, the veterans from my childhood in the military ( l am 66) were still in uniform and they did not regret their service. Others left the army fog civilian life after the war. In both groups there were vets critical of the romantic hype that sometime glamorized something they didn’t see that way.
I was an infant when he went to Korea. But l was a peer of the Vietnam era vets as are many on this forum. There was controversy in my high school full of military brats. Now my dad was not the 18 year old private or the 26 year old sergeant anymore. Sent to Vietnam as a 41 year old captain, in no time his letters reflected deep disillusionment with the war. His deployment was in fact terminated by a massive ulcer.
I talked to a Desert Storm veteran Saturday at Farmers Market. I mentioned the thread in the forum here.,He snorted about WWll being a war not regretted by vets . He mentioned that it was only an offshoot of WWl which, had the terms of peace been better laid out , was a war that shouldn’t have happened. He suggested l learn to meditate and leave off such discussions. He is sick of war.
Dad and l used to talk about how crooked things could be in the country. He would concede that our government hadn’t always been upright in its conduct with say, native Americans, and would ask” But what can we do?” He was always trying to be a good person.
He felt the military was unfortunately necessary. And didn’t like to hear people call veterans of war “heroes “. he always said he wasn’t a hero. He just was doing his duty. But he really wanted to live too.
edit: if we didn’t have this industrial military complex running the world maybe we would find ourself working for peace without bombs and guns. My dad would have loved that.
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
Luhe- l. Am. Not . Comparing.
... no comparison with Stalin.
Read the link above: US prison industrial complex vs the Stalinist gulag. It should make plain that l do not maintain equivance at all. This United States is a haven indeed for people fleeing rapemurderpovertyterrors abroad if it will let you in.
Perhaps this discussion needs to explore the idea of settling what level of greed and corruption we will accept in a “good guy”. Maybe we can manage to let the greed and corruption fall on the historically “inferiors” then ignore their condition as well deserved. Build more prisons?
What facts should l face, luhe?
I think we should go for transparency. We cannot maintain this adversarial model of life on the planet. Deconstructing begins on a local level. It probably begins with these kinds of conversations.
facts we don't want to know.
the purpose of war is to kill humans.. .
which humans?.
It would be foolish to claim that because a government respects human rights today, they always have. -Or even that they will tomorrow.
I still don't agree with that idea that, "good" and "bad" are definitions manufactured purely by the victorious side. --Especially when there are so many examples of pure evil to illustrate the difference.
in general l agree with your statement, TD. The last of your remark should be treated with some care however.
The evils of Stalinism we know. The covert actions of the “good” governments shouldn’t be whitewashed. this good guy vs. bad guy polarizing throws us off the work of making sure our own government respect human rights. To appear always “good” we will hide crimes. This will not help us maintain moral health in our government.. It leads to hypocrisy.
