Posts by humbled

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

Maybe I wanted to talk to a priest because one of my co-workers had been trying to "save" me. This was a moment when race made me tolerant.

Al was black and I guess kind of evangelical. He learned I was Catholic, pregnant, unmarried and involved with a married man. He asked if I would mind if he came to see me after work to talk with me about God. This did not make me happy. But I didn't want him to think I was prejudiced so I said "okay".

When he arrived he talked about his own conversion--which didn't move me--he explained the way of salvation which I could have if I would only "claim Jesus Christ" as my personal savior. And I became acutely embarrassed when this great big fellow knelt down in tears and invited me to give my life to Jesus.

I couldn't. It was just strange. The whole thing was foreign to all my experience and thoughts about God and religion. It did move me that he cared enough to come and make a spectacle like that for my sake. He left without any results, promising to pray for me. Maybe it was a factor in my going to mass and talking to the priest.

So the priest. I knocked on the rectory door that Sunday afternoon and got to tell him that I was pregnant(in case he had not noticed) and intended to marry the baby's father as soon as he was free to marry me. I told him that my intended's present marriage wasn't really a marriage anyway, in my-not-so-humble-opinion. So my question to him as the mouth of the Church-and-God was this: for a person who was this kind of situation and eventually married, what provision was there to be a full-fledged Catholic?

I remember this long silence after I said my piece. He then repeated back to me the salient points of my case and then told me that--when I had done as I intended and married this man-- then I would be free to enjoy all the sacraments of the Church, bar none---as long as I lived with this man, my husband as a sister lives with her brother.

!!!!!!????? I looked at him and realized that he really was an educated true believer and probably on firmground in saying that. Also he wasn't open to negotiation. And neither was I. So I left.

That was the last counsel I got from the Church on the matter for years--until after I took it to God about 4-5 years later.

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

By the time summer was ready to commence, I told my boss what was up and that I needed to go back home, tell my parents and many siblings that I was expecting. and who the father was. The father and his wife had not resolved the troubles of their marriage--especially now that I was expecting a child. They nevertheless continued together all summer almost to the fall when my baby was due. I found work in the town where my profoundly disappointed parents and younger brothers and sisters lived. I rented an apartment and didn't ask God for ****.

Interesting that, Catholic as we were, no one but my youngest brother talked to me about my actions and God. When I went home and told my family what the situation was and the room cleared out, he stayed. Just 9 or 10 at the time he had a smattering of catechism and the curiousity and openness of the very young. He just looked at me and said , really matter-of-act: "you sinned, didn't you?" And I told him, yes I had. And he left. I kind of felt relief just to have someone say it like that and to answer like that. funny.

Near my apartment was a Catholic church. Seven months pregnant I went to mass and was pleased to hear a sermon by a visiting priest (the regular one was on vacation I found out). He seemed smart and sincere and being a "temporary" priest I thought I'd see what arrangement I could make with God to be a Catholic and proceed with my plan to eventually marry the baby's father and be a Good Catholic.

Note: I'll hit submit button. I realize this is kind of a strange answer to Punkofnice's question, but I either have to answer this way or not at all. In small bits like this you can skip it as a nuisance if need be. For me, I either have to answer his question or not post on the forum any more. As I've said elsewhere, the answer I got to my prayer changed my life. So not to write is not an option for me even if you have an option not to read it.

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

The truth of how sordid things had become was brought home to me when my lover told his wife who lived in another state with their children that he wanted a divorce to marry me. She resisted and moved back with him to try to resolve things that winter. I decided to clear out completely. Disgusted with myself. I moved to the neighboring state, found a job.

And found out I was pregnant.

Over the next months until the birth of my baby girl, I experienced a lot of misery. Yes, I had brought it on myself. And though that misery is not precisely what this story needs to dwell on, it is materially important to know how I viewed God and my own situation regarding talking to him about my wants and needs.

As I said, I was miserable. And as happens mostly with us, that is when we remember the Divine Helper.

I thought of HIM but reasoned that unless I was sorry for what I had done, he really had no obligations toward me.

In fact, I found myself entrenched in a conscious resistence to repentence and God when I had to get a TB test in relation to my work. Next to the clinic where I had my TB test I walked into a small streetside chapel of St. Mary the Magdalene. I entered because I felt an affinity with her (I had bought the catholic story-untrue-that she was a prostitute). But as I walked past lovely modern carvings of a reformed Mary, I reflected there was this critical difference: she had repented and I did not. Miserable months were to follow but I was not softened by the experience of it.

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

As I said a couple days ago, had to work and couldn't respond. I had a good day at the market-- sold all my spoons and got more orders. (I don't pray about that sort of thing, btw.) Now I'll tell my experience with a prayer God answered.

when I was 12 I prayed to God to get a black kitten. And I got one!

Just kidding. My prayer story isn't easy telling and isn't so short. And as I am a poor typist and my cheap computer drops whole paragraphs into a void from which they never return, I will punch "submit" from time to time.

In 1974 I was 22, I fell in love with a married man. I was fresh back in the U.S. from Ireland where I had examined my Irish Catholic roots for near a year, working/stranded in Dublin. I had not been a good Catholic girl except in the sense that I had plenty to confess to the priest whenever I went to confession which had not been for some long time as I didn't really want to say who I had been sleeping with.

But I had some real compunctions about getting involved with a married man--as with most women who have a "friendly skirt", I thought it wrong, very wrong, to touch a marriage, even a troubled one. But I got over my reservations.

The experience was troubling. It was one thing to be a "free" woman of the 60's-70's, open in what you said and did, and very much another to meet clandestinely and dishonestly. Lying, cheating, stealing for all practical purposes. I have never felt good about lying. This was a bad matter.

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

Hello,EP,

I am supposed to be carving sppons and finishing them for tomorrow's market. But I should say something in this thread because God answered me in a way that I have never been able to ignore or deny. I have had subsequent responses in the 35 years since that first experience. But there was a thing that happened one wintertime that alerted me that God was out there. I guess it is God. I prayed saying "God" and sometimes I would use "Jesus" because I didn't have a clear idea of the administrational aspects of Prayer. I still couldn't say. But they took care of it anyway.

I'll write a bit more later. Got to work for a bit.

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

God (or whatever heard me) answered a prayer of mine that I prayed for a few years. That event saved my life then and holding on to that experience saved me from dying a JW. It also has forced me to ever so slowly peel off the preconceptions I kept accumulating about God and Jesus, first just a little then after the Witnesses, a LOT. The fear of not having "accurate knowledge" doesn't worry me now. Not knowing the Bible is not a worry either.

Since I know something is there, I shouldn't be afraid to not believe things that I never even knew at the time God helped me.The help I got was when I had no bible knowledge at all.

I'll tell you what happened if you like. It isn't a short story, but since you asked a real question, I'd tell you what happened.

95

Introduction and a note on several posts here

by LizO in

hey people,.

as for myself, after extensive study i have concluded that it's not possible for me to trust the bible and so i am not active anymore.

however, let me please add something to the discussions here:.

humbled

LizO,

The naming of us as apostates and the DC talk on apostates with all the venom that the FDS conjures for us should be enough to enlighten you as to the honesty of the WTS.

Have you ever engaged with Brooklyn itself? When did you ever take your faith in the Bible and had a serious question yet, trusting in the integrity of the Organization, written with respect and sincerity for dialogue. Have you tried this? If you had you might find out in that process whether the WTBTS is honest in its dealings with the rank-and-file..

For many of us, trying to be honest ourselves, we were run over by the Corporation who then cornered us into a space that allows one to become a liar oneself or alternatively allows you to be named an apostate.

Welcome,LizO, but I think you got off at the wrong station.

You seemed to have had a pleasant time with the JWs. I had good friends there for 22 years, too, and I was a true believer while you just quit believing and slid away.

Since you actually never cared enough to raise your head above the trenches you didn't draw any fire and didn't get hurt. Alot of us here were treated badly and in a cowardly dishonest manner because we cared, because we believed.

It is hard to understand why you came here.

Maeve

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

humbled

As so many have validly pointed out, the bible is neither a moral compass nor a history of times past. It tells stories that attribute a lot of actions and motives to a divine being.

It isn't possible to believe these stories just as they are presented.

But that doesn't mean that there is no "something" out there. It doesn't mean that at all.

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

humbled

You are not correct on this, EP. The Slaughter of the animal was one action-- the slashing and the blood.

Olah, the ascent as smoke, the heavenward approach in which nothing was retained by the giver was the great afterward of this Abraham moment.

When the local elders told me that Abraham and God paralled each other , I could only ask if they read John 3:16 thus: "For god so loved the world that he killed his only begtten son..."

But if you, like them, would rather have the story go that the Monster Son-of-a-Bitch told Abe to do Isaac kosher, go ahead.

It doesn't fit. the writing department couldn't make it fit either. But some people are more comfortable with a nasty, tricky god that they can ignore.

I suspect that there is a being out there that is not well understood.

I don't trust the bible either, EP. So we are left to argue our prejudices, perhaps. Because you argue using it, too.

Jesus used it as well.

We are creatures of our time and place, a little bit. I can't help but think God is out there. I can't help but think Jesus had a connection. words get in the way.

It's 1:30 am here. I am really glad for this thread and glad for the discussion.

I hope you and your family are well, EP

and goodnight, tammy

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

humbled

The word zebach was never used in the entired account. In whatever manner Abraham "heard" God and told the story to posterity it was without the defining word that conveyed the slashing and bleeding of zebach.

I submitted to the elders and to Bethel that there is no grounds to say more than that Abraham struggled with the concept God gave him, misunderstood it.

Abraham only tried to complied and God commends him for his "listening". Listening to god doesn't mean we understand always. If God's ways are higher and his means and motives are strange to us--wouldn't it be hard to understand what he wants of us?

The Abraham story sprung me out of the Organization. I have to listen as best I can, too to God. Abraham had no bible. He had no organization. No one voted on the thoughts that rose up in Abe's head.

The stories are there and they are not.

There is the saying " if you meet the Buddha, kill the buddha".

The FDS liked their version of the Gen 22 story. Kill and burn the boy in their Bible story book. That is sick and not true. If Abe told the story using olah, burnt offering , it's because he learned what God meant. He wasn't tricked. He was learning a new concept and their was no word on earth to reflect it.

Religion and their words are always wrong.