humbled

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Posts by humbled

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  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  humbled

  Thistles and figs... by their fruits you will know them.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  If there is a god that is not all-powerful, I ask:Is that not a god?

  The god Job met had a dwelling in the earth and Job sensed that ethical/loving conduct was the good this god enjoyed.....

  why the hang-up on all-powerful? What is the main complaint here? That he/it isn't loving? What if god is loving and nothing else?

  Who has a complaint here--atheists? theists?

  so no one loves an impotent god? Mommy! Mommeeeee!!!!

  (I have company coming in the door-----out of here--)see ya'll tomorrow
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  I have to leave the discussion for tonight..

  But cofty---I ask your question back to you-- What's the point of an impotent God?
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  Doofdaddy--we were indoctrinated from the word"GO" to believe god had the power to fix anything---if he wanted to. I don't see it though.

  Of course all we can do is guess as to why our prayers aren't answered. My guess is God doesn't have the power. It sucks, but what can I do?

  The official church program had us trying to please a god that they couldn't separate from the OT--God of love AND punishment. None of their stuff adds up-- there are leaks everywhere in the theology-- we know they cooked the books. the more they patched the worse it leaked. But no worries, there are professional theologians to tell us what it means.

  So I don't buy their story of god.

  But we--WE--are able to love, to be good to others and be fair. So if there is a higher force, my guess is that god/good/the all/higher force----GOD is LOVE.

  Love is all we have for sure--even ourselves--we have it. For anyone who is a NT theist, shouldn't that be enough without resurrection and all the trimmings? No guessing involved.

  It would be wonderful to find out that there is a beautiful afterlife--especially for people who only suffer and die here on earth. we just don't know. But if there is love in your life, be grateful.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  Well, cofty, I hate being an impotent mom(ahem).

  I really DO love my kids, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't have the absolute power to help them--even if they are in desperate need.

  It's a crying shame, but maybe the carpenter was pretty disappointed to find out that his Abba didn't have a way to stop shit from happening either.

  Maybe an impotent god is having to do as much as he can with love. And we all are just going to have to deal with it.

  But that is a very good question-- If I were writing propaganda to win folks to my religion I would definitely tell them my God was all-powerful.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  Possibly the higher force is loving and limited. As good a guess as any.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  Possibly not all-powerful.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  To the issue of lacking knowledge of why a loving god doesn't act...

  When I've had my children one by one they have had to discover that love alone cannot take away great pain.

  My love, my breast, could do a lot--often a great deal toward easing their suffering. But there are frightening moments when an infant's pain cannot be relieved by a mother's love.

  A baby is not resentful of the mother's failure to stop pain, but appreciative of having mother's love near her. Given time and speech they cry "Make it stop hurting, Mama!" Sometimes we can. But when we can't - they have to learn that my love isn't limited --but my power is.

  So I have been able to rescue them sometimes--from drowning, from bullies, an animal attack, etc. But I don't protect them from everything. Because I can't

  My power is limited even if my love is not.

  I am happy enough to be loved now that I am grown and a relief not to expect God protect me from every suffering.
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  Caliber, Yes it is possible that a higher being has a reason to appear unloving and weak and unfair.

  But nothing changes a simple statement:the tsunami does nothing to prove God's love and power.

  Our old training gave us really involved excuses that laid reason on reason for shit happening. But that is presumptous. As others have said--Job's friends (who thought they were better friends of God than Job was)--they supplied reasons for the natural disaster of Job.

  We could sit on the edge of our seat reading the book of Job to find the answer to cfty's OP. But, ironically the ancient story of Job lost it's innocence when later editors supplied,without foundation, the behind-the-scene drama of satan in God's court of heaven....

  It is so tempting to write a happy ending to the Job story---but it IS more complicated than the fixers could fix----even their attempt o write a happy ending left something out---Job's dead kids

  Let's move on
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  humbled

  It isn't possible to look "behind the scene" with any God that we've been told exists.

  This is an ex-JW site. We are familiar with the description we were taught of the Christian God--who,btw, isn't significantly different than any other christian-church version of him.

  Isn't it fair to say that a natural disaster doesn't prove that God is all powerful. Isn't it fair to say it doesn't proveGod is love.

  How can a tsunami prove these things?

  It is fair to say the discussion can move to another phase of conversation, slowly and deliberately. We are still each free to believe as we will, the discussion of God can remain on the table. But how can we say the death of 250,000 gives evidence of a loving all-powerful God?

  Isn't it fair to say that John 3:16 does NOT read:For God so loved the world that he sent a tsunami so that none should perish.....