one of the major premises of most religions is to accept that some must be destroyed in order for others to obtain everlasting life.
of course, there are many platitudes that a person relies on to soothe the conscience and sanitize the mind.. the ones to be destroyed deserve it.
they refuse to do something, worship god, beg for forgiveness, live a clean life, whatever.they are selfish and nobody can change them but themselves.. but underneath the smug acceptance of salvation, while the others suffer destruction is probably the most selfish concept of all.
Ahhh.. much better thread than the last I was on :) no prophets here, just rational discussion
I'm researching Jungian archetypes at the moment, and yesterday I read that, according to Jung, the concept of God reflects the concept of Self in the psyche. God is projected Self.
So, with x billion believers in the Judeo-Christian God, that is not a nice picture for humanity: jealous, selfish, arrogant, destructive.
Truly man created God in his own image.
Regards,
Deus Mauzzim
"... since you were raised in the truth.
we respect your decision to break your promise and walk away, but don't slander us by talking about [child abuse / ngo / malawi / insert here].
how would you respond to this?.
Thanks all, I needed that! Very much. Period.
Deus Mauzzim
from a logical point....i notice that in these threads that there are few here who dont believe in god..but i hate to tell you your dead wrong for having such an ignorant belief like that..instead ya,ll are blaming religion, people, and your personal problems for your lack of faith in god..thats dead wrong.
the non-believers are not looking at the whole picture..just the present..the things that go on in the world happen for a reason and it doesnt mean god doesnt exist.
the bible says "the fool has said in his heart god doesnt exist".
Dear Blackboo,
I wonder if you're out of the Watchtower just recently?
but i do believe in God..but you guys obviously do the same thing..but dont believe in God..is worst
I ask this because, with all respect, this is the very same judgemental attitude most jw's have (and they're not unique in this respect)
Look my friend, I'm an atheist, but I didn't come to that conclusion because I'm ignorant or a fool. I studied the Bible as a devout JW, and then again in the source languages (which, as you certainly know, are Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek). If you have a specific point about the bible or evolution that proves your case, I would love to discuss that with you rationally, but calling people fools just because they don't believe in your God is very judgemental and much too easy... don't you see there is just no way to defend yourself against such a thing?
Reality is complex. Nuance is the magic word.
btw, welcome to the forum!
Kind regards,
Deus Mauzzim
"... since you were raised in the truth.
we respect your decision to break your promise and walk away, but don't slander us by talking about [child abuse / ngo / malawi / insert here].
how would you respond to this?.
"... since you were raised in the Truth. We respect your decision to break your promise and walk away, but don't slander us by talking about [child abuse / ngo / malawi / insert here]
How would you respond to this?
- Deus Mauzzim
as some of you know, i'm on a journey.
i am in the process of opening up myself to explore other possibilities and i'm trying to examine other ways of looking at religious and spiritual things.
some i take with a grain of salt, others i reject immediately, some i file away in the margins of my mind to explore later, others i embrace with relish (not the pickle kind).
I think some of these old myths, stories, and legends have underlying spiritual truths, and when the metaphorical application is peeled away, a deeper understanding remains from which one can find pieces to the puzzle.
Exactly! It's not a question of literally believing these stories, but of (ancient) symbols resonating within your own psyche.
You said you are on a journey - I totally agree with that. It is a journey of the mind... I envision it as a vast labyrinth full of symbols and inscriptions on the walls. As I travel through the labyrinth by reading, researching, thinking... some of these inscriptions and symbols light up, resonate within me.. and I know I have found something that helps me along.
Who knows where the journey will end?
Respectfully,
Deus Mauzzim
as some of you know, i'm on a journey.
i am in the process of opening up myself to explore other possibilities and i'm trying to examine other ways of looking at religious and spiritual things.
some i take with a grain of salt, others i reject immediately, some i file away in the margins of my mind to explore later, others i embrace with relish (not the pickle kind).
Ok just brushed up on the subject!
In most gnostic sects, Jehovah really is Yaldabaoth, the evil and ignorant demiurge who controls this world. He is ignorant of his own creation by Sophia, and therefore boasts all the time that 'besides me there is no other' etc. So, remember Jehovah is the bad guy here (I kinda like gnosticism because of that :). Naturally, the Serpent in the Genesis account
really is the hero of the story, because he brings knowledge (gnosis) to Eve, and then to Adam: knowledge that they are slaves to Yaldabaoth in his matrix paradise, and knowledge of the
Father of Lights in the realm above, the real god who gave them their divine spark and to whom they must return.
Of course, Yaldabaoth is pissed off by this subvertive action of the serpent and rapes Eve (he would try again later with Norea, Noah's wife). From this, Eloim and Yave are born, known to us as Cain and Abel.
Adam and Eve later have a son called Seth. He receives the gnostic secrets from Adam and becomes the father of all gnostics (i.e all the people who are aware of Yaldabaoth's matrix world and who cultivate their divine spark).
This is a somewhat upside-down version of the Serpent Seed: Yaldabaoth tries to destroy the Sethians throughout history.
NB: Keep in mind that there is no such thing as one gnosticism. There were a great many groups with conflicting views (most saw Jehovah as bad, though). The Ophites (or Naasenes)worshipped the snake as hero, the Sethians called themselves after Seth per above. On the other hand the Cainites didn't see Cain evil offspring but as a hero, like the serpent. Don't try to find any consistency here!
Hope this helps with your journey!
See the links for references to the gnostic texts where you can find these things.
Deus Mauzzim
Links:
as some of you know, i'm on a journey.
i am in the process of opening up myself to explore other possibilities and i'm trying to examine other ways of looking at religious and spiritual things.
some i take with a grain of salt, others i reject immediately, some i file away in the margins of my mind to explore later, others i embrace with relish (not the pickle kind).
This is very interesting! Rings a bell with my own research on gnosticism. I'm pretty sure there was such a belief in the first centuries (this ties in with Leoneia's observations)
I'll let you know if I find something!
[ Deus powering up his vast gnostic scripture archives ]
- Deus Mauzzim
i'm not sure if this is old news to you guys but i just heard that the wts is now giving 30mins public talks instead of 45mins public talks.
this new arrangement is starting on jan 2008. i think the wts has seen that the r&f has had enought of all these meetings and is trying to wind them down without it looking like they are giving in.
I told my wife about the new arrangement and she told me that she doesn't want to hear anythingthat comes from apostate web sites.
Hahahaha she is in for a surprise :)
The reasoning (or lack therof) behind it is sad though.
- Deus Mauzzim
i hereby propose the following titles to be conferred (with honour) on some of our members:.
atlantis - he is the official archiver of jwd.
thanks to him we have our digital library filled with books containting 'delightful words of truth'.
I hereby propose the following titles to be conferred (with honour) on some of our members:
Atlantis - He is the official Archiver of JWD. Thanks to him we have our digital library filled with books containting 'delightful words of truth'.
Deaconbluez - .. Is the Master of Jokes. He gives us a good laugh with his QfR articles. Totalitarianism doesn't like parody, that's why we do
TheWanderer - ... is the Respectful Questioner. His thoughtful questions make us reflect on our JW past, ideology, and our own lives. Respectfully...
Minimus - is the Spiritual Pillar of JWD. Lately I read that one in five apostates believe the sun, earth and moon revolve around Minimus, and so do I! On the day Minimus leaves this forum, our entire universe will break down.
Narkissos - is the JWD Philosopher. His insightful questions and comments tend to make you think deeper yourself, and, occasionally, make your brain explode
I have many others in mind, but those I leave to you :)
- Deus Mauzzim
Oh and here are the medals!
People have lives away from the computer. Its not healthy to be posting away here all the time and not do anything else.
Good that you mention it, I forgot! - Deus Mauzzim
