Posts by Marcel

19

Isn't it amazing ... how many Christians chose to ignore the OT...?

by needproof in

i read this funny article about the god of the old testament, and i thought how amazing it was that some christians seemingly chose to ignore this brutal god of war, yahweh, as though in the nt, he suddenly had a change of heart.

the deity is clearly a maniac with a bloodthirst.

here is the article: .

Marcel

its brutal, unmerciful, blood-thirsty dictatorship over people he explicitly created with the free of will.

thats one side. the other is:

hes god, he created us, he created everything else, hes dictator, judge and executioneer in one person. noone can say he dont have the right to do so, since hes god. he got all rights. he make the rules. if something is unrighteous its because god said so. its righteous because god said so... in fact he CREATED righteousness. in fact he COULD have created us that we think pushing old ladies down the stairway is good. lol. according to the bible when we dont understand gods justice its just because we're imperfect.

the only argument against that is: WHY the heck is jesus who is LIKE god acted completely different? could you imagine jesus butchering someone because he didnt acted exactly like some written law? in fact jesus admired the leprosy woman you broke the law and came into the crowd for touching jesus and didnt kill her for doing so. and THAT were at a time when jesus DID NOT died for our sins already. even david who killed his lovers husband wasnt killed instantly. its said god can see the heart. hearts can change. if not god shouldnt wait for someone doing a minor sin to kill him...

thats really weired to me.

5

Creation And Science

by Marcel in

okay, here we go (king james version): .

genesis chapter 1: .

1 in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth.

Marcel

hi!

Okay, here we go (King James Version):

Genesis Chapter 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. ...

-----------

Okay, what did we read?
Things happening:

1. Creation of Heaven & Earth (what is Heaven?)
2. Earth is some boring place... but with WATER already.
3. "Light" -> Sun created
4. creating the firmament... water above and beneath...
5. firmament renamed to heaven (which was created already)
6. mountains and valleys created
7. plants
8. moon! the rest of our solarsystem! stars! galaxys! galactic clouds! billions of galaxys with billions of stars each... and the planets (much work here)
9. in the later verses god created animals and humans (what a mistake ;))

okay... sounds this logical?

one could interpret further on (on every numer from above):

1. god created space (and its laws - the completely void universe) and placed one lil' wet rock in it - earth... floating through space. (or is "heaven" the spiritual place where the angels dwell?)
2. in that universe without any light and with the earth being the only massive body and only gravitation force anywhere there were already water on earth floating around.
3. wheeee! the first star! sun! god threw the lil' earth rock in an orbit finally. forget the times when earth was floating randomly! no its floating while orbiting sun :-D
4. god added some more water and gases (air) here. and magically created a floating orbiting ocean above earth (the one that came down in the flood). maybe humidity is meant?
5. the heaven mentioned here is the earths athmosphere.
6. some serious digging here. we have mountains finally.
7. serious cropping here
9. animals & human

how does it sound? honestly it sounds to ME like someone made up the creation of the universe without knowing anything about it.
in the past it may have sounded logical. that were the times when people thought the earth is the center of the universe (which is logical since earth was created first and everything else was placed around - this was backupped by other verses. like the one when god "stopped" the sun for the battle of ... i forgot his name. you know what i mean.).

i know the workarounds for these flaws to take it to our time without letting it be nonsense.

BUT

i just wont expect it this way. if i would dont know the bible at all and someone comes to me and says: "here! its the bible! it tells about the creation of the universe, the history of mankind and its future!!!!" i would expect god to create the whole universe, pick a planet and create life on it. we KNOW how planets are created today. even in this second somewhere forms a planet around its star. its not like popping somewhere out of nothing and then a star pop up nearby. its heavily unusual that earth existed BEFORE sun since planets are the heavier elements a star threw out formed by gravity.

its even hard to imagine that god created earth and sun for 3 "days" mentioning it so much and then pop up the WHOLE REST of the universe including all other planets and moons of our solarsystem AND ALL OTHER STARS AND GALAXIES! wow!

and again for a human centuries ago it would make sense! earth is the biggest - everything else are just some ordinary lights in the sky. they didnt even know that sun is a star. and some "stars" in the sky are in fact galaxys out of billions of stars.

its also questionable how the floating water above the layer of air was holding its position. jw believe that this layer came down in the flood. is this possible? i dont know...

also its weired that god created the mountains BEFORE the animals and stuff... as we know the continents were together one time (pangea) and mountains build up and flatten down even today! and we see in fossils that animals lived already when pangea existed.

last but not least for me it was always a problem seeing all that stars, galaxys and stuff. the whole universe. why is it SO big? there seems to be no use for all this. again. if i would materialize on earth without knowing anything about this world. and someone told me the whole bible story... i NEVER would expect the universe SO huge and with stars so far away that we cant see them because light from there doesnt hit planet earth yet (what we know because we (mankind) watched new galaxys appearing which wasnt there before). i also would expect earth as the center of the universe and stars being some lil fuzzy things designed to guide us at night. wouldnt it be a great proof for us, when god would have told us in genesis how the universe is really put together? it doesnt need to be specific but a simple "stars are suns" or "god created many stars with its planets and a very special one for the humans" would have been AWESOME.

i also didnt spoke about the creation of the animal and mankind. but: would you expect dinosaurs to be existed when reading the bible? if no dinosaurs were found i would aggresively deny it! no way! the bible would had told us! i would not even think about the earth being so old and the possibility that evolution occurs (animals changing over the thousands of years). i also would not expect the universe being expanding... there are uncountable things i would not expect.

crazy man! so much text! ill love your comments to my bad written post :D

Thank You!
Marcel

43

Will the WTBTS come to an end?

by pierogi in

cults come and go so do you think the wtbts will eventually come to an end?

i think about this sometimes and i wonder if i will live to see it.

the reason why i want it to end is because i don't like the administration.

Marcel

im 53 in 2034 :(
waiting until then to have another evidence for being the jw a false religion is very expensive.

11

God is Love! Is he?

by Marcel in

sorry for my blasphemic title :d .

its not a fact - its a question.

i would like to know the thoughts of you about this topic.

Marcel

Hi RAF!

no, im not french (sorry, for not mentioning my actual country. im just careful since im still a jw and i have many netsurfing jw friends ;)). when i was kid i didnt like my name much, but when i grew i figured out that it can be a beautiful name too :) i was told that "marcel" is an oldfashioned name in france? is that true? in my country its a fairly modern name. especially at the very moment its in fashion again. i always hear my name yelled after little boys :-D

Marcel

36

Why must observers attend the Kingdom Halls for the Memorial?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

jesus had only 12 members attend and partake the last meal and memorial.there were no observers in the room.each disciple was given bread to eat and wine to drink.there is no mention of other people in the room who couldn't eat or drink the last meal.this was only for those who would partake of this meal.. why does the wts feel that observers need to be at this yearly event?

why can't the elders who(supposedly) have any 144,000 in their congregations,have a memorial with only these members?

if jesus wanted observers he would of had some at his last meal and requested that they be present from then on..

Marcel

my whole life i was told everyone needs to be there, because you cant decide whether to partake or not without being at the memorial. its a holy spirit thing i guess. you're there... the symbols are orbiting and the holy spirit tells you to partake or not. even annointed ones *COULD* be dropped if they dont stay in the full faith. thats why everyone always needs to visit the memorial.

i wonder how long this doctrine with orbiting alc&food will survive. i mean... if i would partake on 2th april... i mean... what would happen to me in my young 26th year? direct slap to the face and lashing in the back room afterwards? noone would believe ME to be one of the annointed.

11

God is Love! Is he?

by Marcel in

sorry for my blasphemic title :d .

its not a fact - its a question.

i would like to know the thoughts of you about this topic.

Marcel

Hi!

Sorry for my blasphemic title :D
its not a fact - its a question.

i would like to know the thoughts of you about this topic.
Me, myself and i always wondered about that fact (im raised in the truth and i am still a jw somehow).
(im discussing this in bible context in JW understanding only. which means arguments like "there is no god" may be right but dont fit in the discussion very well)

okay, on one side we have:
- he offered his son for our sins
- he says that he is love
- he created us
- he gives us privileges like prayer

on the other side we have:
- he created us with the free of will, but forbid us to use it
- its said he loves us more than human parents can love their kids - so which kind of *loving* parents would kill their kids for "minor" things (exception maybe mass-murder?! ;))
- he killed people for things any loving human would have mercy for (2 Samuel 6:3-8)
- what about kids and people who "dont know what they are doing" in armageddon and even in the past (nations that were destroyed by israel, flood)
- why is it "luck" to die pre-armageddon? isnt it unrighteous to have a "second chance" only if you died pre-armageddon?
- why is it hard to believe that jesus from the gospels who is exactly like god (who has seen me has seen the father) could fight the wars of the israelites, give the laws of the israelites and also for example kills achan AND HIS WHOLE family for stealing. (Joshua 7:22-26)

sometimes it does not seems to be very merciful and loving. sometimes its like "kill'em all. shoot what moves.".
i did no research on that topic now. all points are just out of my memory and JW biblestudies. im thankfull for any additions and/or corrections.

TY for your opinion
Marcel

22

What did you have to dispose of when you became a dub?

by exwitless in

little drummer boy's comment on the d&d thread made me think about this:.

when i became one of the borg, i threw out about $600 worth of pnp materials and books, a fact that i was proud of at the time and which makes me sick now because almost all of it is irreplaceable.

he also threw away who knows how many cds that were "bad" for dubs; also threw away a framed picture of a dragon that was really cool, and maybe some cool rock band t-shirts.. i don't remember having to physically throw away a lot of stuff, but i had to resign from the citizen's band i was in (played the clarinet), threw away my good friends from high school, etc.. what did you all throw away when you became dubs that you regret now?.

Marcel

i was raised in the truth, but when i got baptized i threw away great computer games i owned (secretly).
such as Ultima VII and Ascendancy. i had an orginal copy of Ultima VII on floppy disk! i still want it back :( one of the greatest games of that era.

today im still a jw, but im no longer affected by any "laws". i buy and keep everything i want since years. in fact i stopped throwing things to the trash for nothing 4 years after my first attempt. im baptized since 11 years.

40

Big Screen TV: LCD or Plama? Which Brand?

by UnConfused in

jw
friends

anyone with personal experience concerning big screen tv's?

Marcel

ive got a Philips 32PF9551 and i love it.
its a TFT screen with ambilight 32". you can watch it from nearly any angle.
the only disadvantage i could find is that black and dark pictures have quality issues. but thats just a TFT problem. while a CRT and a Plasma TV has a pure blackscreen illuminating the pixels a TFT is naturally bright white darkening the black areas.

we all should just wait for the first laserdisplays coming out in 2 to 10 years :D

marcel

11

Monty Python video- Don't say "Jehovah"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i don't know if it's been posted before.

it gets hysterically funny toward the end.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7241030510383279767&q=jehovah&hl=en.

Marcel

perfect movie! fortunately ive seen it the first time when i was already liberate enough not to turn of the TV and destroy the tape.

its a must-seen to everybody who was into any christian belief system.

16

Storys about demons and how they react to JWs - What do You think?

by Marcel in

i dont believe much of the societys teachings anymore.

but theres one thing that i carried with me all my life:

when everything is false, what is about those stories about demons, seances and all that stuff that is out in the world?

Marcel

hi misocup.

you said you "know" that theres something outthere. can you explain why do you believe that?

regards
marcel