Viviane,
Perhaps you could actually try listening to that little video in the OP, since my comments were a summary of exactly what Richard Dawkins said in the video?
richard dawkins admitted that information inside of dna, and the origin of life on earth, might point to intelligent designers, perhaps extraterrestrials.
(see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boncjbrrdq8 )richard dawkins further admitted, in a debate with francis collins for time magazine, that science might point to a creator existing, but that this creator might not be anything like yahweh:.
time: "could the answer be god?
Viviane,
Perhaps you could actually try listening to that little video in the OP, since my comments were a summary of exactly what Richard Dawkins said in the video?
richard dawkins admitted that information inside of dna, and the origin of life on earth, might point to intelligent designers, perhaps extraterrestrials.
(see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boncjbrrdq8 )richard dawkins further admitted, in a debate with francis collins for time magazine, that science might point to a creator existing, but that this creator might not be anything like yahweh:.
time: "could the answer be god?
The main point of me posting this is to show that incredibly intelligent scientists say that the existence of some kind of intelligent life-giver and designer is possible.
This refutes those atheists who say anyone who believes in a Creator is STUPID or an IDIOT.
richard dawkins admitted that information inside of dna, and the origin of life on earth, might point to intelligent designers, perhaps extraterrestrials.
(see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boncjbrrdq8 )richard dawkins further admitted, in a debate with francis collins for time magazine, that science might point to a creator existing, but that this creator might not be anything like yahweh:.
time: "could the answer be god?
Morpheus,
You sound exactly like the Watchtower!
I posted direct quotations and video of Richard Dawkins himself and you accuse me of "twisting" his words to try to mean something else!
That's precisely why I didn't add any commentary, but see! It still didn't matter, I was still accused of twisting his words.
richard dawkins admitted that information inside of dna, and the origin of life on earth, might point to intelligent designers, perhaps extraterrestrials.
(see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boncjbrrdq8 )richard dawkins further admitted, in a debate with francis collins for time magazine, that science might point to a creator existing, but that this creator might not be anything like yahweh:.
time: "could the answer be god?
This is a better link for the TIME quote:
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1555132,00.html
richard dawkins admitted that information inside of dna, and the origin of life on earth, might point to intelligent designers, perhaps extraterrestrials.
(see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boncjbrrdq8 )richard dawkins further admitted, in a debate with francis collins for time magazine, that science might point to a creator existing, but that this creator might not be anything like yahweh:.
time: "could the answer be god?
Richard Dawkins admitted that information inside of DNA, and the origin of life on earth, might point to intelligent designers, perhaps extraterrestrials.
(See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoncJBrrdQ8 )
Richard Dawkins further admitted, in a debate with Francis Collins for TIME Magazine, that science might point to a Creator existing, but that this Creator might not be anything like Yahweh:
-----------
TIME: "Could the answer be God?"
DAWKINS: "There could be something incredibly grand and incomprehensible and beyond our present understanding."
COLLINS: "That's God."
DAWKINS: "Yes. But it could be any of a billion Gods. It could be God of the Martians or of the inhabitants of Alpha Centauri. The chance of its being a particular God, Yahweh, the God of Jesus, is vanishingly small--at the least, the onus is on you to demonstrate why you think that's the case."
(See http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1555132,00.html )
--------------
Richard Dawkins on Morality without God (from 1995):
"The universe... there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."
tradition within christianity has long been that any time the phrases holy spirit, holy ghost, or spirit of godare used in the bible (especially in the new testament), it always refers to the mysterious third divine person of the trinity, who is fully god, co-equal to the father and son, yet somehow distinct.. i want to present a simplified alternative view: let the context determine the meaning!.
(one thing to keep in mind is that the meaning of the bible words used for spirit basically is unseen force or invisible presence.).
the holy spirit as the mind and personality of god.
Viviane,
We don't need to know what something is made of before accepting its existence.
Otherwise, scientists would NOT accept the existence of Dark Energy, Dark Matter, or Black Holes.
the reason i entitled this "problems with common atheist arguments" instead of "the case against atheism" is that many atheists claim that atheism is not a belief system, makes no claims, and has no requirements to follow, so there's no way to argue against atheism itself.
i will go along with this idea, and argue against the most frequently used arguments of atheists instead of atheism itself.disclaimer # 1: this is not an argument against atheism or all atheists.
no, rather this is an argument against the most frequently used claims and arguments made by the atheists i speak to on twitter.
the reason i entitled this "problems with common atheist arguments" instead of "the case against atheism" is that many atheists claim that atheism is not a belief system, makes no claims, and has no requirements to follow, so there's no way to argue against atheism itself.
i will go along with this idea, and argue against the most frequently used arguments of atheists instead of atheism itself.disclaimer # 1: this is not an argument against atheism or all atheists.
no, rather this is an argument against the most frequently used claims and arguments made by the atheists i speak to on twitter.
OneEyedJoe,
Thank you, I appreciate your well-thought-out and articulated responses.
See this is the kind of elevated debates we should have.
No one has to agree with each other, but no one has to condemn the other person either.
the reason i entitled this "problems with common atheist arguments" instead of "the case against atheism" is that many atheists claim that atheism is not a belief system, makes no claims, and has no requirements to follow, so there's no way to argue against atheism itself.
i will go along with this idea, and argue against the most frequently used arguments of atheists instead of atheism itself.disclaimer # 1: this is not an argument against atheism or all atheists.
no, rather this is an argument against the most frequently used claims and arguments made by the atheists i speak to on twitter.
tradition within christianity has long been that any time the phrases holy spirit, holy ghost, or spirit of godare used in the bible (especially in the new testament), it always refers to the mysterious third divine person of the trinity, who is fully god, co-equal to the father and son, yet somehow distinct.. i want to present a simplified alternative view: let the context determine the meaning!.
(one thing to keep in mind is that the meaning of the bible words used for spirit basically is unseen force or invisible presence.).
the holy spirit as the mind and personality of god.
Tradition within Christianity has long been that any time the phrases “Holy Spirit,” “Holy Ghost,” or “Spirit of God”are used in the Bible (especially in the New Testament), it always refers to the mysterious Third Divine Person of the Trinity, who is fully God, Co-Equal to the Father and Son, yet somehow distinct.
I want to present a simplified alternative view: Let the context determine the meaning!
(One thing to keep in mind is that the meaning of the Bible words used for “spirit” basically is “unseen force” or “invisible presence.”)
The Holy Spirit as the Mind and Personality of God
1 Corinthians 2:10-12 (NIV):These are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
In this context, we can clearly see that Paul is viewing the “Spirit of God” as God’s mind, personality, heart, or deep inner thoughts, exactly like he uses the term “spirit of a person within them.” The “spirit” inside of a person is not a distinct person, no, instead it is a part of you. Paul is not, in this context, envisioning the Spirit of God as a Third Person who is distinct or separate from God.
The Holy Spirit as Jesus
2 Corinthians 3:14-18 (NIV):But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. […] But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
In this context, Paul is clearly saying that Jesus is “the Spirit” that he is speaking about. This fits in perfectly with a couple other Scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:45 (NIV): So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
1 Peter 3:18 (NIV): For Christalso suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
In those particular Bible verses, it is referring to Jesus as “the Spirit.”
The Holy Spirit as God the Father
John 4:24 (NIV): God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.
There, Jesus refers to His Father as “spirit,” but the context shows He is referring to God’s nature or essence. He was not using “spirit” as a name or title of God here. He was saying God is a spirit being, like angels and demons are called spirits.
Acts 5:3-4 (NIV): Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
Here, Peter is using the phrase “the Holy Spirit” as another name or title for God. There’s no hint in this passage that Peter was saying God and the Holy Spirit were two different Persons, in this particular context.
The Holy Spirit as an Angel
Acts 8:26-29 (NIV): Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
In this context, we can see that “the Spirit” was “an angel of the Lord,” not necessarily a mysterious Third Divine Person within the Godhead.
Acts 10:3, 19-20, 22 (NIV): One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!” […] While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.” […] The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.”
Again, we can see that “the Spirit” who was talking to both Cornelius and Peter, was a holy angel of God in this context.
The Holy Spirit as God’s Power or Energy
Micah 3:8 (NIV): But as for me, I am filled with power, with the Spirit of the Lord, and with justice and might, to declare to Jacob his transgression, to Israel his sin.
Luke 1:35 (NIV): The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Acts 1:8 (NIV): But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
1 Corinthians 5:4 (NIV): So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present,
1 Thessalonians 1:5 (NIV):because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.
In those Scriptures, we can see that the phrase “Holy Spirit” or “Spirit of God” is linked with the power of God or the power of Jesus. The context in these verses would not require you to interpret this “Spirit” as a Third Divine Person.
The Holy Spirit as a Mysterious Divine Person
There are some Scriptures where the Holy Spirit does indeed appear to be a mysterious Third Divine Person, distinct from the Father and the Son. Could this Person be an angel, such as Gabriel? Or is it somehow a part of God’s nature with its own separate mind? I will let you decide:
John 14:16-17 (NIV): And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
John 15:26 (NIV): “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
John 16:13-15 (NIV): But whenhe, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
Matthew 28:19 (NIV): Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
In conclusion, the phrase “Holy Spirit”and “Spirit of God” can mean many different things, and it always depends on the context.