Jgnat wrote:"The Jews, even though speaking the language of whatever land they live in-as tody- in general, still sopke Hebrew. When Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah at the temple, it was likely in Hebrew-
For the sake of those reading, your confidence does not match history. http://www.markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/jesuslanguage.htm Mad writes: Why should I believe his opinion; the rest of his site shows he teaches typical church dogma unsupported by scripture, whereas the scriptures constantly refer to Paul dealing with Hebrew-speaking Jews, and that Christ occaisionaly spoke out in Hebrew. The synagogues- worshipping tradition- would encourage their people to hold on to it, even tho having to use the language of the land they were in. That does not mean that all- or even MOST did (as shown by the reference to Pentecost / Acts 2- but that many did- how well we just don't know. Hebrew is not a 'lost language'- it is STILL being used by...Jews!
and to think HE wouldn't honor nor use the Name of his God & Father is ludicrous.
Only if one held a firmly held doctrinal belief as you do. Are you so firm in your belief that you cannot hear? The Jews of the time considered it dishonoring of God to mention his name aloud.
Mad wrote: I'm convinced! The "Jews of the time" considered many things that weren't true to be so- and the majority STILL proved to be unfaithful to their God- as proved by Jesus stating to them "Your house is abandoned to you" and the destruction of the Temple!
Also, to think Jesus- who condemned their ridiculous traditions- would follow them by NOT using the Name- is EQUALLY so!
You presume to know the mind of Jesus. I prefer to start with what we DO know. Of the people, the times, the language. Does your doctrine hold up? It does not. Before we get down to doctrine, let's get the source straight. The OLDEST early Christian manuscripts DID NOT use "Jehovah" in the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Mad writes: At least you are correct on this! But notice the suspicions of scholars that don't have church leanings in this article from Wikipedia:
Tetragrammaton in the New Testament
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
| Ancient Southwest Asian deities | |
| Levantinedeities | |
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| Mesopotamian deities | |
Adad | Amurru | An/Anu | Anshar | Asshur | Abzu/Apsu | Enki/Ea | Enlil | Ereshkigal | Inanna/Ishtar | Kingu | Kishar | Lahmu & Lahamu | Marduk | Mummu | Nabu | Nammu | Nanna/Sin | Nergal | Ningizzida | Ninhursag | Ninlil | Tiamat | Utu/Shamash | |
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Archaeologists have discovered papyrus fragments of the New Testament dating as far back as the middle of the second century. Of all 5,000 extant manuscripts, none contains either the Hebrew (????) or Greek transliterations (?aß?) of the Hebrew name ????. One of the most ancient fragments, the papyrus codex designated Chester Beatty Papyrus No. 2 P46, is dated prior to AD 200 and contains nine of the apostle Paul's letters. In the Chester Beatty papyri, we find ?S and sometimes TS with a horizontal bar above them where the tetragrammaton occurs in the Hebrew text. These are abbreviations for kurios (?????? "lord") and theos (?e?? "god"). Some scholars think that these abbreviations were not part of the autographs and thus were added some time later, [1] concluding that YHWH did indeed occur in the NT. [2]
An article by George Howard in the March 1978 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review set forth a theory that YHWH appeared in the New Testament and that "the removal of the Tetragrammaton from the New Testament and its replacement with the surrogates kyrios and theos blurred the original distinction between the Lord God and the Lord Christ." [3]
Mad: Your arguement would hold merit ONLY if 1-Jesus were God (with no other imagined 'God-Persons), and if 2- The Name of God didn't exist.
When Jesus said "Hallowed be thy Name"- he wasn't referring to the titles "God" or "Lord", and he wasn't referring to those when he said that he came to make it KNOWN- even tho the Jewish clergy wrere hiding it, and the "Weeds" / Phony Christians have been doing so ever since...