t33ap80c

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Posts by t33ap80c

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  10

  Is there new information coming out on the generation?

  by okiesooner1966 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey,.

  i was talking to my mom the other day and she said they have new information the generation topic.

  i asked her if it was about the 1914 fiasco and all she said was she had something for me to read next time i see her.

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  t33ap80c

  Has the Awake! Masthead Statement Changed Again?

  Since November of 1995 the Awake! statement has looked like this:

  "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

  But I notice on the Society's website that they have removed the underlined part of the above statement...

  "The Watchtower and Awake! both build confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world." - http://www.watchtower.org/e/publications/index.htm

  Does anyone know how this statement is currently worded in the Awake magazine?

  Jim Penton over on Channel C said that his November Awake! doesn't have any version of the above statement at all.

  If the Governing Body has removed it entirely that would seem to indicate that even they have finally recognized that what they have been saying all these decades was not "the Creator's promise" after all.

  Don Cameron
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  82

  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  Oompa,

  You said, "The 1878 date for Christ's entronement was moved foreward to 1914 in the year 1920.. The Watch Tower July 1, 1920 p.196). I have not read it yet though. Is that the first you know of?........thanks oompa"

  If there is an earlier date I would think that TD has it.

  Don
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  13

  Now it is real! Generation U-turn: New Light coming in February Watchtower!

  by pElE the King in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello folks, .

  just to let you know that jaracz had a 1 day visit this week to london bethel to explain the brother there is a new understanding coming on the fig tree illustration that will clarify our view on the generation that will not pass.

  he haven't told anything else, but the point will be on the study watchtower of february.

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  t33ap80c

  Does the masthead page of the Awake! magazine still say...

  "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

  I notice on their website they have removed the underlined part of the above statement...

  "The Watchtower and Awake! both build confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world." - http://www.watchtower.org/e/publications/index.htm

  Don Cameron
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  82

  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  Oompa,

  You had asked me "When/where exactly did WT change the date of Christ’s presence (from 1874 to 1914)?"

  I answered:

  "According to the 'Proclaimers' book the date was changed to 1914 in 1943. The footnote on page 133 explains that the change is found in their 1943 book ‘The Truth Will Make You Free.’ – See also the footnote 38 on page 22 of "Captives of a Concept."

  You said, "The footnote in the Proclaimers book does not state 1943 is when the change took place."

  Although your are correct that the footnote doesn’t state that the change of date to 1914 was made in 1943, I know that this is what the footnote means. Here is why I say this:

  The footnote is a specific reference the statement that "Russell came to be persuaded that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874." After explaining some of the reasons for Russell’s flawed chronology that misled him to 1874, the footnote then says, "A clearer understanding of Biblical chronology was published in 1943, in the book, "The Truth Shall Make You Free."

  What was the "clearer understanding" about the beginning of Christ’s invisible presence that was published in that book? The footnote doesn’t tell us. But that 1943 book it refers to does. The 1973 book, "God’s’ Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached" refers to that same book and says this: "In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book ‘The Truth Shall Make You Free.’ It then explained how the Society’s better understanding of chronology "moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia." pp.209, 210

  Unfortunately the Proclaimers footnote is written in such a way that what it is saying will not be noticed by most Witnesses. And that is that the Society didn’t change the date of Jesus’ "invisible presence" from 1874 to 1914 until 1943.

  You made the point that that 1943 book is not the first time 1914 was identified as the change from 1874 to 1914. The point I make in the book is that "according to the Proclaimers book" that’s when the change was made. The Proclaimers book doesn't offer any other date earlier than 1943. And so that's the one I use in my book while acknowledging that this is "according to the Proclaimers book."

  You went on to provide evidence indicating that Rutherford first began to connect 1914 with Jesus’ presence in the 1930’s. TD has provided several references, which seem to support your contention. I tried to cover that possibility in my footnote #38 when I acknowledged the following under a special NOTE:

  NOTE: There is some evidence that Rutherford first mentioned 1914 as the beginning of Christ’s Second Coming in the 1930s. But the Proclaimers book doesn’t mention any date prior to 1943. Either way it wouldn’t make any difference because the change of date was made long after Jesus’ examination was over.

  As far as the point I'm trying to make in the book is concerned it doesn't matter if the date was changed in the 1930's or 1940's. It was changed too late. They say Jesus' exam was over in 1919. The time to pass an exam is when it is given, not 10-20 years after it is over.

  Let me know your thoughts on this.

  Don
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  82

  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  TD,

  Thank you once again for the details.

  Don
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  82

  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  TD,

  Thanks for the additional information about that three-year period of confusion between 1930 and 1933 about what the Society's official teaching was about Jesus' "advent," "presence" and "second coming" actually was.

  I think I will leave my footnote on page 22 as it originally was when I said that there is some evidence that Rutherford first mentioned 1914 as the beginning of Christ's Second Coming in the 1930s.

  Don
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  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  Hi M.J.,

  NOTE: I finished this post before I saW your last post. _________________________

  At the end of your post you said, "It's my impression from going over the text of the yearbooks from 1933-1942, that 1914 was connected with Christ ascendancy to the throne, but not explicitly identified as the beginning of his ‘presence’."

  On page 37 of TD’s PDF is a photo copy of page 362 of the December 1, 1933 Watchtower. Here is what Rutherford said…

  "The year 1914, therefore, marks the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, the King of glory."

  Since "invisible presence" is the Society’s version of everyone else’s "second coming" then it looks like Rutherford did in fact associate 1914 with the beginning of Jesus’ "presence."

  What do you think?

  Don
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  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  HI Gary ,

  You suggested that "The Society seems to have been teaching the invisible return in1874 and in 1914 within the same 10 year span from 1933 till 1943."

  I wonder...

  If TD is reading this, Have you seen anything in the literature between 1933 and 1943 about 1914 or 1874? If so, what was Rutherford saying?

  Don
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  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  Hi VoidEater

  About your dad you said, "Sadly he is wrapped in the torment of wanting to be in so bad that he'll kill himself to try to believe."

  That reminds me of the elder to told me, "I would rather go to my grave being deceived then to find out that the Society isn’t who they say they are."

  How can such people be reached?

  Here is a paraphrased version of something Paul explained to Timothy about how to go about helping someone (especially members of one's own family) get the sense of what has happened to them:

  Paraphrase of 2 Timothy 2:23-26

  ‘You do not need to fight your father, but you need to be gentle towards him, instructing him with mildness as perhaps God may give him repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of the truth about the Watchtower Society and he may come back to his proper senses.’

  On page 121 of "Captives of a Concept" reasons this way:

  "Although it is good to have evidence that Jehovah’s Witnesses need to know (like that found in Chapter 3) and to be able to present it in a mild and gentle way, whether or not they will be able to get the sense of it ultimately depends on what God does. Notice that it isn’t the evidence that will lead them to an accurate knowledge of the truth about their religion. It is God giving them repentance that will do it.

  "And according to what Paul said previously, it appears that God only gives it to those who 'accept the love of the truth.' – 2 Thessalonians 2:10,11

  "It is not possible to force anyone to accept that kind of love or to change a Witness who isn’t ready to face the truth into one who is. But it may be possible to help some kinds of Witnesses notice some of the interesting things their Proclaimers book is willing to tell them, and then leave it up to God to enable them to get the sense of what it all means.

  Footnote: "It would be nice if there was a way to help Witnesses want to face the truth about their religion. But their wanting to do so can only come from within themselves. Their need to know the truth must outweigh their fear of knowing it. But for those who do become ready to face the truth, the Internet has made it relatively easy for them to discover the truth. – See Chapter 18, "The Internet – The Watchtower’s Worst Nightmare," p. 112 . "

  I find that if I can keep these things in mind I don't find myself saying "S heesh!" so often.

  Don
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  January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the one mistake we all made.

  and the january 15, 2008 watchtower.

  page 24 the governing body makes the following statement: .

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  t33ap80c

  Hi Oompa,

  You correctly pointed out that the Society’s teaching is that Jesus’ "faithful and discreet slave" was appointed long before 1919 in 33 C.E. in the upper room at Pentecost."

  This is why in the book I went out of my way not to say that Jesus appointed the Society as his "faithful and discreet slave" in 1919 in fulfillment of Matthew 24:47.

  Rather that he simply acknowledged that they were his "slave" because they had (supposedly) been so faithful and discreet about what they had been teaching that he gave them the appointment mentioned in verse 47. And so that appointment was not to be his "slave" but the giving of his "slave" the authority "over all his belongings."

  I doubt that most Witnesses notice this distinction. I wonder if even the men of the Governing Body clearly see what they are saying on this matter.

  I know I didn’t. It was one of those things that I couldn’t quite grasp but accepted it anyway because, "After all, the Society is God’s organization." That illusionary concept kept me captive for 20 years.

  Don