t33ap80c

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Posts by t33ap80c

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  41

  Site To Refute Franz And Cameron

  by Bangalore in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found this site set up by a loyal jw who wants to refute books like "crisis of conscience" and "captives of a concept".

  i thought loyal jw's were not even supposed to read such books.. .

  http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/2010/01/.

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  t33ap80c

  In the book I said, "One of the things that makes the Watchtower’s organizational concept so powerful is that nobody notices that it is ‘in fact, the dominant, controlling force’ in their decision-making process."

  "Setting The Record Straight" then said, " Well, ‘nobody notices’ because this simply isn’t true."

  That just goes to prove my point. Even ‘Setting’doesn’t notice it!

  But why is it that Jehovah’s Witnesses are so willing to stop or start believing something the moment the Society stops or starts teaching it? What is the dominant, controlling force in their decision-making process?

  It isn’t because they believe that Jesus is the Christ or even that Jehovah is God. Rather it is because they believe that "the Society is God’s organization." That’s the way it was when I was a Witness. I assume it still works the same way today.

  Don Cameron
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  41

  Site To Refute Franz And Cameron

  by Bangalore in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found this site set up by a loyal jw who wants to refute books like "crisis of conscience" and "captives of a concept".

  i thought loyal jw's were not even supposed to read such books.. .

  http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/2010/01/.

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  t33ap80c

  Some comments from Don Cameron...

  The author said, "(Cameron) argues since the Society believed 1874 marked Jesus’ invisible presence, therefore, in 1914 they could not have been on the watch for Jesus and his Kingdom. Is this true?"

  What I notice is that the above author has changed my argument in order to prove that I was mistaken.

  What I actually said is that since the Society believed that Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1874 they would not have been on the watch for his invisible presence to begin in 1914. That still seems reasonable to me. In the same way today they are not on the watch for Jesus’ invisible presence to begin because today they believe it already began in 1914.

  But the author changed the subject from "the beginning of Jesus’ invisible presence in 1874" to being "on the watch for Jesus and his Kingdom in 1914."

  While it is true that the Society was on the watch for Jesus to come in his Kingdom and destroy all earthly governments at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, they were not on the watch for Jesus’ invisible presence to begin in 1914.

  I think it is possible that the author is so intent on proving me wrong that that he doesn’t realize he has done this.

  Don Cameron

  P.S. I wonder if this person is ThirdWitnetss? Sure sounds like him.
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  49

  Ray Franz Views of "Information Control" by WT Society Agree with Hassan

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  having read ray franz's " crisis of conscience " 3 years ago -before i read steve hassan's 2 books on mind control - my wife and i thought it would be good to re-read ray's " crisis " book again now that we know more about the workings of " cult mind control".

  we just finished chapter 2 and i noticed striking similarities i thought i would share.. notice this quote in " crisis of conscience " on pg.

  28 & 29 by franz , " thus numerous factors that are relatively common knowledge in many religious organizations are known only vaguely , if at all, by the vast majority of jehovah's witnesses.

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  t33ap80c

  Happy Guy,

  You said, "I think it is unwise to believe everything Franz says just because he say so."

  Can you give an example or two of something Ray Franz has said that you feel would be "unwise to believe"? Or that it would be wise for us to disbelieve?

  Don Cameron
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  21

  Swine Flu Shot Is Good? Maybe Not

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  take a look.... tp://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/21/special-swine-flu-update.aspx#.

  don cameron.

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  t33ap80c

  Here are some more thoughts about the Spanish Flu of 1918.. "The Spa nish flu of 1918 didn’t cross Greece border"

  "20,000,000 died of that flu epidemic, worldwide, and it seemed to be almost
  universal or as far away as the vaccinations reached. Greece and a few
  other countries which did not accept the vaccines were the only ones which
  were not hit by the flu. Doesn’t that prove something?"

  See http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message852138/pg1

  Don
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  21

  Swine Flu Shot Is Good? Maybe Not

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  take a look.... tp://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/21/special-swine-flu-update.aspx#.

  don cameron.

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  t33ap80c

  Elsewhere,

  You said, "I just do not understand the ethics of discouraging vaccinations. More people die when vaccinations are not taken."

  Here is another interesting article that you may not have seen…

  THE SPANISH INFLUENZA EPIDEMIC OF 1918

  WAS CAUSED BY VACCINATIONS

  http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html

  Don Cameron
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  21

  Swine Flu Shot Is Good? Maybe Not

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  take a look.... tp://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/21/special-swine-flu-update.aspx#.

  don cameron.

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  t33ap80c

  Take a look...

  tp://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/21/Special-Swine-Flu-Update.aspx#

  Don Cameron
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  1

  Playing Only the Music Your Like

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  open up a separate window and take it to pandora.com.

  .

  if you would like to set up your own 'radio stations' that will play only the music you like, you will love this free service.. don cameron.

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  t33ap80c

  Open up a separate window and take it to PANDORA.COM.

  If you would like to set up your own 'Radio Stations' that will play only the music you like, you will love this FREE service.

  Don Cameron
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  9

  $1000 a day fine for refusing swine flu shot

  by ninja in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_od55wvdmm.

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  t33ap80c

  There is a lot of interesting stuff available about what happened in 1976 when the Swine Flu popped up the first time.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lcJt4jX1Vo

  Don Cameron
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  21

  has anyone had any luck with a jw studying their history?

  by cawshun in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just finished reading "captives of a concept" i thought it was a terrific book.

  has any one had any success studying the history with a jw?.

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  t33ap80c

  Cawshuan,

  I'm not aware of any new Edition of the Proclaimers book. If there is one it would be interesting to see if they revised the footnote on page 133.

  Don
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  21

  has anyone had any luck with a jw studying their history?

  by cawshun in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just finished reading "captives of a concept" i thought it was a terrific book.

  has any one had any success studying the history with a jw?.

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  t33ap80c

  JWS said, "What I don't remember is whether they expected Jesus to come in 1874."

  Russell did not begin to think that Jesus came in 1874 until 1876. That was when Nelson Barbour explained it to him. – "Proclaimers" book, p. 47.

  Once Russell made the mistake of believing Barbour he taught that mistake for the rest of his life. From that moment on he told the world to stop looking FORWARD to the Second Coming Christ. Rather that since Jesus already came in 1874 that therefore Christians should stop looking forward but rather to look BACKWARD to 1874 for that event. Russell never expected Jesus to come in 1914 to begin his invisible presence.

  If Jesus did in fact come in 1914 it means Russell was responsible for causing everyone who listened to him to miss the most important Event in the history of the Christian religion since the First Coming of Christ - i.e. the Second Coming of Christ.

  I think it is fair to wonder why Jehovah never allowed Russell to understand when his Son had returned. How faithful or discreet could Russell have been that caused God to block him from ever being able to understand such an important event?

  I also wonder why anyone (God or otherwise) would select an organization that mislead the whole world about the Second Coming of Christ for 67 years (from when Russell first started teaching 1874 to 1943 when the Society stopped teaching 1874). – See footnote on page 133 of the "Proclaimers" book.

  Don Cameron CaptivesOfaConcept.com

  P.S. The above assumes that Jesus did in fact return in 1914 - which I do not believe.