t33ap80c

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Posts by t33ap80c

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  35

  Why does JW.org need a registered trademark?

  by cedars in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've just noticed that the logo for jw.org is a registered trademark.. this is how the logo appears on the back cover of the new magazines.... .

  maybe i'm overthinking this, but i'm struggling to understand why a website for a religious organization that purports to be involved in not-for-profit educational work needs to register a trademark for its website.

  a trademark is something commercial companies use to protect their goods or services.

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  t33ap80c

  
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  21

  Malawi Party Card, Scans and comment

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am indebted to marvin shilmer for the info, on his excellent site.. link .http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/03/malawi-savage-betrayal-by-watchtower.html.

  i was so pleased to see the actual cards that caused all the trouble, after wanting to see it for so long, that i post it today.. first, the background in case anybody does not know the terrible events that happened.

  in the late 1960's to early 1970's jehovah's witnesses were cruelly persecuted and subjected to the worst possible beatings, rape torture and death.

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  t33ap80c

  The exhausted material about Mexico was provided by ThirdWitness last year on TOPIX. "SettingTheRecordStraight" (STRS) then placed it on his own website. http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/2010/01/12/the-truth-of-the-mexican-military-jehovahs-witnesses/#comments

  ThirdWitness asked, "Can anyone show where I am wrong?'

  From my experience in dealing with him, nobody can prove to him that he is wrong no matter how wrong he is.

  Here is one example of how his mind works which blocks him from being able to get the sense of what he is reading...

  He said, "According to Franz’s photocopy the 1960 letter states: "It is and has been the custom among the brothers to pay this sum of money (i.e. an illegal bribe) and secure their marching cards and many of them are now serving as circuit servants and congregation servants."

  And so it is according to this letter (not according to me or Ray Franz) that Circuit Overseers had illegally obtained their marching cards by bribery.

  But later on ThirdWitness asked, "Can Cameron or Franz actually show us one single CO or DO who obtained the card by bribery?"

  What I can show is the above letter that clearly says that Circuit Overseers did in fact illegally obtain the card by bribery.

  Why can't ThirdWitness and STRS see that fact? They appear to be so obsessed with discrediting Franz and myself that they are unable to get the sense of what they are reading.

  As a result they are unable to see the double standard that existed between what the Society DID allow in Mexico with what they DID'T allow in Malawi.

  Don Cameron
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  12

  Your favorite Chapter from 'Crisis of Conscience?'

  by Joliette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would have to say that my favorite chapters are 'points of decision' and the 'aftermath' chapter.. what about yours?.

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  t33ap80c

  I have a favorite paragraph from "Crisis of Conscience." That's where Ray said...

  "I try in my own mind and heart to understand the feelings of all [Jehovah’s Witnesses], including those of the Governing Body. Based on my own experience among them I believe that they are, in effect, the captives of a concept.

  "The concept or mental image they have of "the organization" seems almost to take on a personality of its own, so that the concept itself controls them, moves them, or restrains them, by molding their thinking, their attitudes, their judgments…The …concept of "the organization"… becomes, in fact, the dominant, controlling force."

  That's the paragraph that inspired me to write the book "Captives of a Concept."

  Don Cameron
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  13

  Just Received This Email From "Knocking" Director

  by DarioKehl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; line-height: 15.0px; font: 13.0px tahoma; color: #292929} p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; line-height: 17.0px; font: 13.0px tahoma; color: #1440fc} p.p3 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; line-height: 17.0px; font: 13.0px tahoma; color: #292929; min-height: 16.0px} p.p4 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; line-height: 15.0px; font: 13.0px tahoma; color: #292929; min-height: 16.0px} span.s1 {text-decoration: underline}.

  knocking update.

  february 2011. www.knocking.org.

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  t33ap80c

  The producer of "Knocking" (and his JW mother) made the same mistake that we and all the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses made. And that is, he failed to carefully examine the Society's claim that in the spring of 1919 Rutherford and his associates received the awesome Matthew 24:47 appointment 'over all Jesus' interests here on earth' because they were the only religion that had been providing "the right spiritual food at the proper time" down till 1919.

  It seems possible to me that if he and his mother had not made this mistake they may have concluded the same that Ray Franz concluded once he stopped making it in 1979. That's when he realized, "It would be an insult to Christ Jesus to say that he selected this organization on the basis of what they had been teaching as of 1919."

  Don Cameron
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  44

  If you could choose one book to suggest to a JW...

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sure this isn't an uncommon question but i'll ask anyway.. suppose you had the chance to suggest one book, essay, article, or other writing with the goal of helping a loved one wake up... which one would it be?.

  bear in mind the goal is to subvert the programmed hair-trigger defenses that cause a complete shutdown of critical thinking.

  this automatically excludes anything that would directly place the wt society or its history in a negative light.

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  t33ap80c

  The two books I would suggest to a JW would be (1) God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, and(2) "Jehovah's Witnesses- Proclaimers of God's Kingdom."

  The reason being is because the former book provides the most detailed explanation of the Society's interpretation of the most important Scripture in their theology (Matthew 24:45-47), and (2) the latter book provides the most detailed explanation of the Society's history that relates to their interpretation.

  What Witnesses don't realize is that their interpretation and their history don't agree. And they also don't realize that means that according to the Society's own their interpretation the Society must not have ever been "God's organization."

  Unfortunately, just having the above books doesn't help Jehovah's Witnesses realize what they mean. They need to come to know what to look for and where to find it.

  That's where books like Crisis of Conscience and Captives of a Concept, etc. can be helpful to those who would like to help Witnesses come to know what things to look for and where to find them.

  Don Cameron
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  44

  Why I Like the "Proclaimers" Book

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while it is true that the "proclaimers" book is not always as open and honest about the society's history as it claims to be, it is open and honest enough to bring into question the society claim to being god's organization.

  it's a matter of (1) knowing what to look for, (2) where to find it and then, (3) to be able get the sense of what it means.. take for example the extremely important matter of the second coming of christ.... on the top of page 47 the book truthfully explains how president charles russell came to believe that jesus returned invisibly in 1874 to begin his second coming ("invisible presence").

  and then a careful reading of the footnote on page 133 shows that the date of jesus' return was not changed to 1914 until 1943.. it is likely that even if some witnesses notice that fact, they do not get the sense of what it means.

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  t33ap80c

  Does the new DVD change anything about the Society's interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47? Does it mention anything about the change of date of Jesus' parousia from 1874 to 1914?

  Don
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  44

  Why I Like the "Proclaimers" Book

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while it is true that the "proclaimers" book is not always as open and honest about the society's history as it claims to be, it is open and honest enough to bring into question the society claim to being god's organization.

  it's a matter of (1) knowing what to look for, (2) where to find it and then, (3) to be able get the sense of what it means.. take for example the extremely important matter of the second coming of christ.... on the top of page 47 the book truthfully explains how president charles russell came to believe that jesus returned invisibly in 1874 to begin his second coming ("invisible presence").

  and then a careful reading of the footnote on page 133 shows that the date of jesus' return was not changed to 1914 until 1943.. it is likely that even if some witnesses notice that fact, they do not get the sense of what it means.

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  t33ap80c

  Is the "new DVD" referring to the "Faith In Action: Out of Darkness" DVD?

  Don
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  6

  Any suggestions

  by bobld in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what would someone type in google on the internet to direct that person to a site that was honest about the watchtower.if they just type in watchtower or jehovah's witnesses it will direct them the the wt.org which i don't want.i want them to go directly to such sites as freeminds.org.jwn or something like that.there are to many sites that would take them on a wild goose chase.i want them to go directly to the cheeze on this cult.. b.

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  t33ap80c

  Google Search: Captives of a Concept
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  44

  Why I Like the "Proclaimers" Book

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while it is true that the "proclaimers" book is not always as open and honest about the society's history as it claims to be, it is open and honest enough to bring into question the society claim to being god's organization.

  it's a matter of (1) knowing what to look for, (2) where to find it and then, (3) to be able get the sense of what it means.. take for example the extremely important matter of the second coming of christ.... on the top of page 47 the book truthfully explains how president charles russell came to believe that jesus returned invisibly in 1874 to begin his second coming ("invisible presence").

  and then a careful reading of the footnote on page 133 shows that the date of jesus' return was not changed to 1914 until 1943.. it is likely that even if some witnesses notice that fact, they do not get the sense of what it means.

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  t33ap80c

  gorbatchov,

  Do you (or anyone else) know what, if anything, the new DVD says about Matthew 24:45-47?

  Don
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  44

  Why I Like the "Proclaimers" Book

  by t33ap80c in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while it is true that the "proclaimers" book is not always as open and honest about the society's history as it claims to be, it is open and honest enough to bring into question the society claim to being god's organization.

  it's a matter of (1) knowing what to look for, (2) where to find it and then, (3) to be able get the sense of what it means.. take for example the extremely important matter of the second coming of christ.... on the top of page 47 the book truthfully explains how president charles russell came to believe that jesus returned invisibly in 1874 to begin his second coming ("invisible presence").

  and then a careful reading of the footnote on page 133 shows that the date of jesus' return was not changed to 1914 until 1943.. it is likely that even if some witnesses notice that fact, they do not get the sense of what it means.

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  t33ap80c

  TD,

  You said, "My experience is that JW's will pounce on anything they believe is less than accurate as an excuse to dismiss everything else you say."

  That's my experiece too.

  But is it less than accurate to conclude that the footnote on page 133 of the Proclaimers book is acknowledging that the date of 1874 was changed to 1914 in 1943?

  What about my related footnote where I said, "NO TE: There is some evidence that Rutherford first mentioned 1914 as the beginning of Christ’s Second Coming in the 1930s." From what you pointed out, that statement is accurate.

  How about when I said, " But the Proclaimers book doesn’t mention any date prior to 1943." That is accurate.

  A nd finally I concluded: " Either way it wouldn’t make any difference (if the date was changed in the 1930s or 1943) because the change of date was made long after Jesus’ (food-at-the-proper-time) examination was over." That is accurate.

  Will such an explanation above make any difference to a Witness who is not yet ready to face the truth about the Watchtower Society? My experience is that it will not make any difference even if they cannot see anything that is not accurate.

  Don