Posts by whereami

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07061805.html
By Peter J. Smith
NEW YORK , June 18, 2007 ( LifeSiteNews.com) - Religious education is a form of child abuse and violates the rights of children, contends a thesis
to be considered by secular humanists at the Center for Inquiry's congress in Beijing this October. The Center for Inquiry, an organisation recently awarded special
consultative status as an NGO at the United Nations (UN) will consider the proposals of Innaiah Narisetti, the chairman of the Center for Inquiry's
India chapter that portend the next stage in the assault on the rights of parents to educate their children.
Nasiretti called the influence of religion a 'severe shortcoming in the global campaign to protect children' and a contributor to child abuse
saying, 'In one form or another, all religions violate the rights of children.'

'Such abuse begins with the involuntary involvement of children in religious practices from the time they are born,' says Narisetti. 'All
religions, through ritual, preaching, and religious texts, seek to bring children into day-to-day religious practice.'
'This gives holy books and scriptures, as well as those who teach them, an early grip on the developing minds of young people, leaving an indelible
impression on them,' said Narisetti, calling Sunday schools, madrassas, or Jewish or Hindu temples, centers of indoctrination for children.
Nasiretti's proposal would reject the long-recognized inherent rights of parents to educate and provide for their children's religious instruction
in favor of regulating children's exposure to religious influence by world governments abiding by the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
'The time has come to debate the participation of children in religious institutions,' continues Narisetti. 'While some might see it as a matter
better left to parents, the negative influence of religion and its subsequent contribution to child abuse from religious beliefs and
pra ctices requires us to ask whether organized religion is an institution that needs limits set on how early it should have access to children.'
The UN forum proposed by Narisetti would debate the 'pros and cons' of religion on children and determine whether religion contributes to global
child abuse.

'The UN must then take a clear stand on the issue of the forced involvement of children in religious practices; it must speak up for the
rights of children and not the automatic right of parents and societies to pass on religious beliefs, and it must re-examine whether an organization
like the Vatican should belong to the UN,' stated Narisetti. 'Until this happens, millions of children worldwide will conti nue to be
abused in the name of religion, and the efforts made by the UN will continue to address the symptoms but not the disease.'

7

Excellent article on the WTS flip flop on voting

by whereami in

got this from this blog, http://isnrblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/.

being born and raised a jehovahs witness, i had always been taught that it was wrong to take part in political elections.

was i surprised whent he following was printed in the watchtower, nov 1.

whereami

Got this from this blog, http://isnrblog.wordpress.com/2007/12/

Being born and raised a Jehovah’s Witness, I had always been taught that it was wrong to take part in political elections. Was I surprised whent he following was printed in the Watchtower, Nov 1. 1999 questions from readers.

The Question was: How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting?

For simplicity sake I have only quoted exerpts from this article as it is rather long. If you think I am taking it out of contex, I will email you the full article or if you have the Watchtower Society’s CD, look it up. Here was there answer in part:

· What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16) In making this personal decision, the Witnesses consider a number of factors.

…”In view of the Scriptural principles outlined above, in many lands Jehovah’s Witnesses make a personal decision not to vote in political elections, and their freedom to make that decision is supported by the law of the land. What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator.

The November 15, 1950, issue of The Watchtower, on pages 445 and 446, said: “Where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote . . . [Witnesses] can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot.”

What if a Christian woman’s unbelieving husband insists that she present herself to vote? Well, she is subject to her husband, just as Christians are subject to the superior authorities. (Ephesians 5:22; 1 Peter 2:13-17) If she obeys her husband and goes to the polling booth, that is her personal decision. No one should criticize her.—Compare Romans 14:4.

What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth—perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision. “Each one will carry his own load.”—Galatians 6:5.

There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12.

Whatever personal decisions Jehovah’s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: “You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me.”—Psalm 31:3.

So, “People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.” Romans 14:12

Voting then, is a matter of conscience, with each Christian making their own decision.

Interesting.

Lets look at the Watchtower of 2/15/74 pg 107, entitled “A NONPOLITICAL WORK TODAY”

As such ambassadors they do not go to the political nations, trying to bring about the reconciliation of a whole nation at once, neither do they meddle in political affairs. Rather, they go directly to the people—to individuals. But they do not try to turn individuals toward any earthly ruler, or seek to win them over to any political ideology. They confess: “Our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Phil. 3:20) They appeal to people to look to the kingdom of God for relief. Accordingly, if they should get involved in the affairs of this world, taking part in political activities, holding office or voting, they would lose their status as ambassadors and brothers of Christ, and would never attain to heavenly rulership with him.

We then have this from the Watchtower of 3/1/03, pg 5:

“In March 1933 the German government called a general election. Dr. Detlef Garbe, head of the Neuengamme Concentration Camp Memorial near Hamburg, explains: “The National Socialists wanted to force a large majority for their chancellor and führer, Adolf Hitler.” Jehovah’s Witnesses followed Jesus’ admonition to stay politically neutral and to be “no part of the world,” so they did not vote. The result? The Witnesses were banned.—John 17:16.”

History shows that as a result, Jehovah’s Witnesses were viciously persecuted in Nazi Germany. In all fairness, voting wasn’t the only issue but the Watchtower says “Jehovah’s Witnesses followed Jesus’ admonition to stay politically neutral and to be “no part of the world,” so they did not vote.

But the Watchtower above says that “it’s a matter of conscience”. Which is it?

In the case of the Nazi’s and the Witnesses, voting was a small issue. They refused military service and all other sorts of things, that if you thought about it for a while seemed designed and gauranteed to piss off the Nazis. Not good for your health as thousands were imprisoned and killed for following the teachings of the Watchtower Society.

Keep in mind the voting issue as you read the next quote. Remember, in Nazi times it was a not allowed, but in 1999 it was “a matter of conscience”

From the Watchtower, 4/1/70, page 218, par 5

As recently as October 1967, the refusal to join a particular political party and the failure to carry a party card identifying one with the party, resulted in a barbaric wave of torture heaped upon Jehovah’s witnesses in the Central African country of Malawi. An unknown number of women witnesses of Jehovah were raped. Forty of these were pregnant. Due to the way they were abused, each one suffered a miscarriage. Because they refused to buy a political card, they were beaten severely, sexually assaulted and their property was destroyed. Yet President Banda of Malawi could not get them to break integrity and renounce their God Jehovah. These Witnesses were motivated from the heart. They had true Christian qualities built in them.”

Its a point of semantics but joining a political party and/or voting is pretty much the same primcipal. Either way, you are no longer politically neutral, so the Witnesses “neutrality” arguement, the basis for not voting, is out the window. How could you be allowed to vote, if your conscience allowed, and still maintain “Christian Neutrality”?

The huge inconsistancy here is that in some of their publications it is wrong, definitly. In the 1999 Watchtower, it’s a matter of your “Christian conscience”or, in other words wrong for you if you think it’s wrong and OK for you if you think it’s OK.

Gee, it’s a little late for those poor slobs in Malawi.

“Hey, guys..yea we did flip on that one. Sorry, our bad! Oh, and how’s the wife?”

2

GREAT YOU-TUBE VIDEO TO SHOW TO DOUBTING ONES

by whereami in

very well done.

make sure to see the whole series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhdd_5myozy&nr=1

whereami

Very well done. Make sure to see the whole series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHDd_5MyoZY&NR=1

8

2 minute Video called "The God Who Wasn't There"

by skyking in

very thought provoking.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kubqguclxzk.

whereami

This is a bit long but very well done. It has 12 parts. Enjoy, and brace yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlbIYTjeQP4

7

How did this article miss mentioning JW's?

by RisingEagle in

jw
friends

great.

the wall street journal did an article yesterday about a pastor at a baptist church having a woman arrested for trespassing after she had been 'shunned' for spreading 'poison' within the church.

thanks wsj for giving the gb new ideas:.

whereami

Come on!!! This is right up the WTS alley!!! They wrote the book on shunning. Someone needs to write to the paper about this.

16

Watch a mind controlled cult member, Tom Cruise on Scientology

by Layla33 in

jw
friends

catch it, it's some wild stuff, like watching a bethelite after a talk.

ugh!.

http://defamer.com/344987/the-tom-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientologists-dont-want-you-to-see.

whereami

One of the funniest things i've ever seen. I didn't know if i should of been scared or laugh at this.

18

I am needing info about the Ratio of mental Illness in jwdom vs general pop

by sosad in

i remember some studies referred to about the rates of suicide etc.

does anyone have that link?.

.

whereami

Here's a good video on it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO-b65W-zQs

53

Upcoming Elders Schooling

by Questions1 in

it's no secret that the "organization" has increased it's cia, national security clerance only super-secret attitude in regards to the elder school that is going to be conducted soon.

a few days ago, i had a conversation with an elder who has been in the fold all of his life practically.

in keeping with the conversation style of jws, the gentleman told me that nobody knows what exactly will be taught at the meetings, but in his backdoor conversations with some brothers who seem to be tuned into the bethel's officially, unofficial, communications network, the elders are going to be taught "post-armageddon" teachings.

whereami

Welcome ?'s 1. Like you i know some people hi up in the WTS. A few month back i was speaking to a very good freind of mine that knows some of the members of the GB. He said with a very serious tone that the word behind closed doors is that the GB all agree that the Great Tribulation will start by no later then 2010. He begged me not to tell no one about this. In my mind i was like, what a bunch of BS. I'll tell you something though, my friend is really close to the GB. I wish you could see his face when he was telling me this. Over the past year you can see the changes that have been happening inside the org, private Watchtower mag, shorter meeting time, big meeting for all the elders comming up, ect.. I feel that whether these guys (GB) believe their own bs or not, they really feel something has to happen in the next few years.

12

WTS TRYING TO GET MONEY FROM THE HOLOCAUST!!!

by whereami in

read this on another site.. application for holocaust funds.. .

http://www.swissbankclaims.com/pdfs_eng/...rbible.pdf.

united states district court for the eastern district of.

whereami

Read this on another site.

Application For Holocaust Funds.

http://www.swissbankclaims.com/PDFs_Eng/...rBible.pdf

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF
NEW YORK

In re Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation:
Master Document No. CV -96-4849
(ERK) (MDG)
Consolidates with CV-96-S161 and : CV-96-461

This Document Relates to All Actions :

Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation (Swiss Bank Litigation)
Proposed Plan of Allocation for
Jehovah's Witness Victims and Targets of Nazi Persecution

December 7, 1999

COMES NOW, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, (hereinafter Watch Tower), the corporate agency directing the administrative and religious work of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide, by its attorney, Carolyn R. Wah, requesting an allocation of a portion of the settlement fund for Holocaust education and remembrance as well as just and equitable compensation as outlined below:

As the attached report entitled "Spiritual Resistance and Its Cost for a Christian Minority: A Documentary Report of Jehovah's Witnesses Under Nazism, 1933-1945" will show, the Nazi persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses, which spanned virtually the entire Nazi period, exacted a heavy physical, financial, and emotional toll on that small religious community in all Nazi- occupied lands. The report also evidences that the Witnesses' individual and organized stance in opposition to the violent ideology of the regime was a decisive factor in the severity of the persecution, resulting in profound losses.

Although conclusive documentation may be lacking for the claims of individuals targeted as Jehovah's Witnesses; there are three factors that argue for a favorable hearing for the individual applicants, even where the elusive "Swiss connection" may be weak:

(1) Since Jehovah's Witnesses were among the earliest groups to be targeted for sentencing to concentration camps, they were often used in the actual construction of the camps. In some cases, the SS-run camps could, in themselves, be considered commercial enterprises that benefited from slave labor. Because the Witnesses had been in the camp system for long periods of time, they sometimes worked for the camp administration, but without due compensation, of course
(2) Witness literature often carried sharp criticism of flagrant human rights violations in Nazi Germany. This was true of Witness literature produced and distributed clandestinely within Nazi-occupied Europe, as well as Witness literature published internationally. The Gestapo was well aware of the critical and revealing content of the literature, and thus they expended extraordinary effort to expose and destroy the secret printing facilities. They confiscated printing equipment, burned stocks of literature whenever it was found, and hunted down and executed many of those involved with the underground work. Thus, the nonviolent resistance offered by the Witnesses increased the financial, material, and physical losses they sustained.
(3) The nonviolent, nonpolitical resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses to Nazi policies is distinctive for its duration and consistency. It is not possible to quantify the losses suffered by families whose mothers or fathers were given lengthy sentences in camp or prison because of their faith. Beyond the lost wages, lost property, and lost years are the intangible costs suffered by all victims of Nazi terror. Unlike other victims, however, most Witnesses had a choice. Generally, they were targeted solely because of their religious convictions. Witnesses were offered the opportunity to avoid persecution simply by renouncing their beliefs. Therefore, by virtue of the length of the persecution and the nature of their resistance, we ask that the court grant special consideration to the applications of Witness survivors or their heirs, which will no doubt be few in number. Further, the court may allocate a portion of the settlement to be used for purposes of Holocaust education and remembrance. Combating intolerance and indifference is extremely important work. The Watch Tower and individual Jehovah's Witnesses have expended hundreds of thousands of dollars to promote awareness of the Holocaust and its lessons. The Watch Tower and its affiliate branch offices have made educational and academic presentations, free of admission charge, in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Israel, and most countries of Eastern and Western Europe. More than 400 seminars and exhibitions have been held in Germany alone, often in cooperation with concentration camp memorials, research institutions, and museums. Important research and archival work is being conducted in Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Poland, Russia, Israel, and other places.

The few remaining Witness survivors have used their waning vitality to speak to young people, educators, and scholars about their experiences and those of their martyred fellow believers. If the court sees fit to allocate a portion of the settlement fund to the Watch Tower to continue this work of remembrance, we believe it would constitute fitting recognition of individual Witnesses who suffered and died while maintaining their faith and human values.

Some Witnesses died prematurely and left no heirs to make a claim to the Swiss Bank Settlement Fund. However, the legacy of spiritual resistance that they left behind is of great value in the education of future generations about the importance of standing up for the dignity and value of human life. Representing these individuals, the Watch Tower would be pleased to devote any allocated moneys solely to the interests of Holocaust education and the remembrance of the prisoners who bore the purple triangle, according as the court might stipulate.

Realizing that thousands of survivors and heirs will apply to the court to receive a portion of the Settlement Fund, Watch Tower is not in a position to recommend a certain percentage to be allotted for the purposes outlined above, nor are we able to suggest what portion of the Fund should be allotted to individual Witness survivors. Watch Tower acknowledges that no amount of money can fully compensate for the losses of any victims of Nazi persecution. However, if the funds provided by the Swiss Banks Settlement can symbolically or practically mitigate the human suffering of survivors or their families, or if it can advance the work of education and remembrance, the money will have been well spent. In this allocation process, we rely on the court's equity and fairness.

WHERFORE, in light of this information, Watch Tower, respectfully request an award in harmony with the just and equitable principles outlined in the settlement order.
December 7,1999.
Respectfully submitted,
signature
Carolyn R. Wah
Associate General Counsel
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society
of Pennsylvania
100 Watchtower Drive
Patterson, NY 12563
Tel: (914) 306-0700
Fax: (914) 306-0709

Also http://www.swissbankclaims.com/pdfs_eng/...76_056.PDF

http://www.swissbankclaims.com/pdfs_eng/...76_056.PDF