Posts by flipper

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

I've gotta go run out the door and go to work out of town tonight- will be back tomorrow to answer the rest of your responses on page 3 here. Thanks for your responses- keep them coming. I'm interested to know or hear of any ideas you may have for revealing this WT child abuse situation to the public and JW's themselves. See ya tomorrow ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

JAMES MIXON- Indeed my wife and I discussed the very thing you just mentioned. What it would be like to stand at the other end of the park or within 50 feet or so of these Witnesses with huge posters or signs saying, " Jehovah's Witnesses protect child molesters " - and see what kind of response it would get. It's a free society and if the JW's can go out there with their JW carts - we have the right to stand up and hold signs also ! Good idea. Peace out. Mr. Flipper

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

SOFIA LOSE- I find it interesting that even with the Lopez child abuse case in San Diego, California that the Spanish congregations are oblivious to it. What do you think is causing that to happen ? I'm curious about what you think is causing the Spanish congregations to ignore it.

LIFE IS TOO SHORT- Thanks for your support and kind words. I think Sister Talkative's head was in the clouds, she is just deluded by what she is told within the WT organization. I know how hard it was for you in your situation it had to be incredibly disgusting and difficult for you - I'm so sorry you experienced what you did. All we can hope to do is give more access to these JW's about the WT child abuse scandals. Take care.

JAMES MIXON- Thanks I appreciate it

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

Thanks for all the comments ! I appreciate it.

JW LEAKS- Thanks. It does make one wonder how these JW's would have responded to Candace Conti herself- I feel they still would have called her an " apostate " and treated her disrespectfully. These people's minds are totally constipated. And a GB member like Morris ? nope, I don't think he would man a cart. Like you said the pictures you provided were photo ops. Set up. From what I hear GB members don't really go out in service very much. LOL !

OUTLAW- That's hilarious ! I would imagine Morris and the other GB are soiling their britches with all these lawsuits right now.

GARRETT- Thanks I appreciate it.

HAPPY@LAST- Interesting you tube . The guy is trying to draw out the JW and what's interesting to me is that the JW doesn't even seem to have a Bible ! I mean- that would have been unheard of back in the day years ago when I was a Witness. How are these JW's supposed to defend their faith with nothing but WT literature ? Amazing. I found it interesting that the JW when asked what he'd do or say to the man who had less than two minutes to live - hypothetically- that the JW told him about the " resurrection " hope. Message to JW- How about calling 911 if the guy has been shot and getting an ambulance there in a real emergency situation ? Unbelievable the fantasy world they live in ! They can't even make a decision in a real life emergency situation .

SPLASH- Indeed we ex-JW's have a little preaching work ourselves to accomplish.

NOTSUREWHERETOGO- I wasn't trying to attack these JW's belief systems or doctrines- I was there to INFORM them of recent serious news coverage on major news outlets concerning WT child abuse. Give them REAL access to information that they will never hear about inside a JW Kingdom hall. I knew that I probably would not change these JW's viewpoints- my main purpose was to give them access to the child abuse news and then they will in turn talk about it to other JW's in their congregation. I wanted to get the information wheel rolling. As JW's like to talk and gossip- I believe the news will spread in my area that the public is telling local JW's they know about the WT child abuse scandal- and that is a good thing.

It may cause them to feel they are being persecuted- yes- but what are we going to do- remain silent about these WT child abuse cases all across America ? I for one will NOT remain silent - JW's need to know and if that offends them or rocks their world- that is THEIR problem - they need to have empathy towards the JW child abuse victims.

HEAVEN- Thanks. That's a very good question to ask a JW woman if she would continue to be a JW or go to the same kingdom hall their molester went to if they were molested. Good point. Wonder how they would answer that ?

FINKELSTEIN- You got it exactly. I wasn't trying to debate WT doctrine with them - I was just giving them access to information concerning WT child abuse that I'm quite sure they had not heard about. The dangerous policies of the WT Society need to be revealed.

THE SEARCHER- Yeah, they tried calling me an " apostate " but I told them I was never a baptized JW. JW's will call anybody an " apostate " even if they've never been a JW. That's how paranoid they are.

WASANELDERONCE- Exactly. The mind control the WT Society has over these people is incredibly strong. All their answers are like pre-rinsed or pre-arranged so they don't have to listen to you or think with their minds. Like robots they are programmed to say or do certain things- anything beyond that they start overloading and it doesn't compute. LOL.

PRONOMONO- I hope the talkative sister will talk to other sisters in her congregation about it

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

O.K. Page 2 responses now, thanks again for your nice thoughts.

SOUR GRAPES- You make a really good and valid point. These JW's DID get bug eyed and act scared to death when I presented this information to them. I swear- the skinny older elder thought that I was the " Devil Incarnate " himself . LOL. I think most JW's just aren't READY to be challenged. They are SOOOO mind controlled by the WT Society thinking that they have the alleged " truth " - that they kind of put their brains on " cruise control " and don't really even think or worry about what they're going to say. Because once they get challenged- they become VERY scattered in their behavior kind of grasping for straws. Really weird.

ARWEN- Hey thanks. I think it's good to get this message out there as well. JW's certainly aren't going to have this Candace Conti case announced at their Service Meetings ! LOL. I think the Talkative " Sister " will research this on the Internet. If she can sneak past her husband.

SHIRLEY W- Thanks. I think the talkative lady will research it if her husband doesn't stop her.

HAPPY DAD- Indeed the JW's just keep on being ignorant about things - all they know is what they hear from the WT Society- they aren't willing many times to research it themselves. I'm hoping at least these two JW ladies will research it.

OZ GIRL- Thanks, I tried to be calm and respectful- more than I can say that the old elder did ! LOL.

NICOLAOU- Thanks. Exactly. If JW's keep showing up in public places like this- more people are going to challenge them and make them think.

FREEGIRL 2006- Indeed it was interesting for sure. Thanks. Peace out, mr. Flipper

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

I appreciate all the responses. Good suggestions from you folks as well- thanks.

OUTLAW- Thanks bud. You bring out a really great point that with the JW's perching themselves in public places like parks with this JW cart thing- it's kind of like " open season " as you will with them inviting the public to come interact with them in a neutral zone or environment. So JW's have to be ready for whatever comes at them - and it may not be pleasant for them to have to suffer the embarrassment of their own WT organizations faults or crimes. But oh well- that's what they get for being in a destructive cult that does destructive things. It's different where they can't really run and hide- not like calling on people's doors and being able to just walk off of someone's property.

DING- Good point. If these Witnesses suffered what Candace did- I'm sure they would have been out of there and exited the organization as well. What bothered me with the Talkative Sisters response was her ASSUMING Candace couldn't be trusted due to being a former Witness - I approached it to this JW as insinuating that if Candace WAS a JW and got molested and reported it- would that make it more acceptable or hurt less ? I was trying to somehow SHAME this " sister " into seeing that Candace suffered pain even being an ex-JW as she would of as a JW . Trying to appeal to her authentic personality from the " having empathy " viewpoint. It DID make this " sister " take pause for sure.

LISA ROSE- Indeed- JW's aren't used to people approaching them being the bearer of information- they are used to disclosing information- not having someone disclose information TO them. They kind of freak out when they get to seeing they are NOT in the drivers seat with controlling the conversation. LOL.

OUBLIETTE- Good advice. Actually after I typed this thread when reading your response I kind of DID do what you suggested- I asked the older elder, " What do you mean by apostate information ? " I continued, " I got this information from the Internet and major News sites. " So I tried showing him the difference but talking to this guy was like talking to a brick wall.

PISTOFF- You are SO right. Their heads will never come out of their asses. It's so far up there it's coming out of their esophagus.

SPECTRE- Good point. They can't really run away as they had their JW cart . I kind of had a captive audience since they had to watch their carts to not miss counting any of their placements.

FINKELSTEIN- Good point you make that modern society VIEWS child abuse as a serious crime even though JW's and the WT Society try to minimize it as just a sin. Also good point that if the court systems found WT Society liable to pay out money to Candace and they aren't apostates- so the JW theory holds no weight whatsoever. Goes without saying.

FREEMINDFADE- Very true what you say. These JW's aren't just calling at homes anymore- they are putting themselves out in the public places - so people are going to voice their opinions and they need to be ready for that. If they aren't- then they shouldn't be out there.

MAGNUM- I agree with you. I think it's important to try to get JW's to think - sometimes next to impossible- but if we appeal to their authentic personalities about the evil of child abuse then perhaps we can cause a crack in their armor . I think that was happening with the two JW ladies- but not the man, he was pissed off royally. Probably because I was revealing things to these JW females that elders usually keep hidden. But they do go into " attack mode " towards us as alleged " apostates " before they even read what we have to share with them ! It's crazy weird.

STUCKINARUT2- JW's probably deny what the courts decide on by saying that " Satan controls the courts " - or something of that nature. But like the old saying in sports games goes - " Scoreboard . "

COMPOUND COMPLEX- I'm not sure if Candace was a baptized JW or not- however- even if she was not she had to be what they call an " approved associate " as a young girl to go out into the field service. So her parents were baptized and until after the walls caved in from the Kendrick molestation of her- they were an active JW family. So calling Candace a " former Witness " is completely accurate really if she was raised up in a JW family. Especially if she was going out in service. And attending meetings regularly, giving talks, etc

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

GRREAT TEACHER- Good point you make ! Maybe Sister Talkative WILL do some research after brother Vitriolic Skinny grandpa elder has gone to sleep for the night. One can only hope. I know some of my points got through to Sister Talkative. And who knows ? Perhaps some of my points got through to Sister " Silent as a Church Mouse " who kept quiet through the whole discussion ! She let the other two do all the talking and she looked at me with a concerned look of amazement that I was revealing this information . So who knows what was going through HER mind ? Perhaps she will research also

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

Thanks for the responses. My apologies for the length of this thread- but the discussion lasted about a half hour - so a lot went down today .

COFTY- Hey thanks. Well- I tried to be as civil as I could without losing my cool . I feel I kept it together- but " Chief skinny grandpa elder " was getting under my skin after about 30 minutes. Don't think I could have lasted much longer, as I had served my purpose. I tempered my comments with being firm, but ethical trying to keep dignified towards him , at least more dignified than he was towards me ! LOL !

SPARROWDOWN- Thanks. Isn't it amazing how these JW's just bury their heads in the sand like ostriches ? As you say- it truly IS scary how deluded and closed minded they are. This experience was evidence of that.

NEVERENDINGJOURNEY- Indeed you make good points. JW's can run away from confrontation if they come to people's doors, but when they are manning ( or womanning ) the JW cart- it would take too long to break down the cart and run away ! LOL. Hey- All I wanted to do was get my message out with the least amount of confrontation. I knew beforehand there WOULD be confrontation- but I thought I'd be able to deal with it when it came. I think the message got out.

TRUTHSEEKIAM- Hey thanks. I truly believe the cognizant dissonance is working overtime within JW ranks now as well. I agree. My motive also was to make it as energetic an experience for these 3 JW's so that they will SHARE this experience with other JW's back in their local congregations so that the subject of WT child abuse will at least be on their lips and in their conversations. You know how JW's love to run the rumor mill and gossip ! LOL. We shall see what happens

29

Is there a Child Molester on the Governing Body?

by TTATTelder in

great report by abc on the abuses in jw-dot-org land.... i hope it opens a "floodgate" of future news reports and exposes.

if you ask yourself, "why hasn't the watchtower leadership changed their policy on the 2 witness rule?

if one or more persons on the gb has victims out there that can't come forward because of the 2 witness rule, then that would explain the permanent road block to policy change that is obviously in place.

flipper

Well, we just don't know for sure- do we ? There was a lot of information that got out about Greenlees , Chitty, and Jaracz while they were alive. That allegedly they had committed child abuse. I've talked to some ex- Bethelites who knew some of the principals involved who informed them of truth regarding some of these accusations. That being said- these GB members are all dead now.

Although most probably the GB members now have not committed child abuse - that doesn't mean that other higher ups in the JW organization have NOT committed child abuse. WT Society is hiding this Database file for reasons they will not open up about. And if it has 24,000 names on it of pedophiles or people with child abuse crime history- there may be a good chance WT higher ups are on that list. Since the WT Society is remaining arrogant and refusing to hand over court requested child abuse documentation and refusing to even let a current GB member testify - it certainly leads one to believe they are hiding something that would REALLY incriminate them big time. I guess we won't really know until some power higher and more authoritative than the WT Society forces them to cough up this information. Meanwhile, we all wait with baited breath

91

Epic Discussion ( Confrontation ) with JW Cart People about WT Child Abuse

by flipper in

so i had about had enough of reading jw's excuses online about wt child abuse and the candace conti nightline abc video about her case.

this is a really deep burning topic to me as i'm sure it is to many of you.

so today the gloves came off.

flipper

O.K. So I had about had enough of reading JW's excuses online about WT child abuse and the Candace Conti Nightline ABC video about her case. This is a really deep burning topic to me as I'm sure it is to many of you. So today the gloves came off. I took the law into my own hands.

For weeks the JW cart people have been sitting in a little noticeable park area in our little town right near the highway entry on the main street in town. Their sign was up as I was on my way home from work and I was armed with News printouts about the Conti, Lopez, and Oregon ex-JW's child abuse WT lawsuits with informative articles from major news outlets.

I approached and saw 3 middle aged JW's ages about late 50's to late 60's sitting there watching the JW cart about 10 feet away. Two ladies and one man . I took a Memorial invitation off the rack and one of the ladies ( more talkative than the other ) approached me and gave me a magazine. I asked her, " Who are you with again " ? She said, " We are Jehovah's Witnesses ". I said, " Oh, I see . I have some relatives that are Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm curious, can I ask the 3 of you a question ? I' ve asked my JW relatives these questions and I have some real concerns or worries about some issues I've seen and heard of recently ! " So I go stand in front of all 3 of them.

I immediately share information about the ABC Nightline news report about Candace Conti ( remember I'm still standing there with WT literature in my hands ) and tell them the story of how the elders in their church apparently knew Kendrick was a child molester before but assigned him out into door knocking with Candace Conti anyway when she was a girl. The talkative JW lady immediately interrupts me and states , " Oh no ! THAT would never happen ! Our organization disfellowships child molesters. " She continued, " In fact I know of one JW child molester who served time in prison and got reinstated and the elders make him listen on the telephone to the meetings. He's not allowed to even come to the Kingdom Hall ! " I commended her elders saying, " Well that's good that your elders DO that to protect the children- however- that isn't practiced everywhere. In Kendrick's case with Conti the elders KNEW beforehand that he had molested his wife's granddaughter and they STILL allowed him to go out door knocking with her. " I continued, " And in these 3 child abuse news releases it talks of OTHER child abuse victims who were molested by elders who were appointed in SPITE of the elders and WT Society knowing these elders had previously committed child abuse. " Talkative sister " had a stunned look on her face. I had just apparently fired a shot across the bow.

I tell " Talkative Sister " that I'd like to leave these 3 news printouts with her to give her information and " skinny elder brother " ( who I think is her husband and an elder ) speaks up loudly to her as she is reaching out to take my news releases, he says, " Don't take that information from him - it's Apostate ! " I tell him , " What do you mean by " apostate " ? This information is from major news releases on the Internet . " " Talkative sister " interrupts her husband and says , " I'd like to read this because I want to be informed about WHAT is going on and being said about Jehovah's Witnesses ! " So " skinny hubby grandpa elder " sits back down and pipes down - although I can SEE him simmering like a percolating coffee pot !

All the while I'm keeping my composure and staying calm trying not to trigger these people. As " talkative sister " thumbs through the news releases she states , " THERE you have a clue right in the title of the article it says " FORMER Jehovah's Witness charges WT Society with child abuse. " She continued, " Well THAT explains everything. Candace Conti is a FORMER JW who has an axe to grind with the WT Society and she's probably been disfellowshipped and is seeking revenge against the organization ! " So I immediately ask her, " So are you telling me that if she was a CURRENT Jehovah's Witness being molested you'd be more apt to believe it ? Are you questioning her truthfulness and her motives because she is a FORMER JW ? " Talkative Sister starts backpedaling a bit saying, " Well- I haven't READ the article so I don't really know her motives but why would she wait so long as an adult to do something about it ? " I state, " Because she saw on Megan's list that Kendrick HAD molested another child AFTER her and he was still committing child abuse in her former congregation. So Candace felt guilty about this and wanted to protect other children from harm. " I continued, " You'll see this if you read the article. "

The " Talkative Sister " says , " Well , I will look it up online when I get home and research it Because I really want to know. " I told her that we cannot ASSUME somebody is untrustworthy JUST because they are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses. Dishonesty happens with people of ALL ilk and faith. I briefly explained that my JW father who is an elder warehoused my JW mom into a shoddy care facility trying to commit welfare fraud as my mom had $ 340,000 in the bank and had the right to an A+ rated facility - but my JW dad and older brother TRIED putting her in a welfare facility and when the authorities got involved - only THEN did my dad and brother put her into a better care facility. I continued, " Point I'm making is Jehovah's Witnesses CAN be dishonest just like you are saying any non-JW can be dishonest , people are people and you have to take each situation as it comes. "

At this point as Sister Talkative tried to hand back the News releases to me- " skinny husband grandpa elder " JUMPS UP off his bench and GRABS the news releases and throws them into the trash ! LOL. He says, " THAT is where this APOSTATE literature deserves to be ! It's just BS that's all it is ! " I calmly said to him, " Sir, you are sure being hateful - I took your WT literature and am willing to look into it , why are you being so destructive towards my material ? " He says, " Because YOUR material CANNOT be trusted ! " I ask him, " How do you know that I can trust YOUR material - the WT material ? " He says, " Because it comes from the Bible ! " Then he says, " You are probably an apostate too ! " I said, " I've never been a Witness. "

So I finish by stating, " Look- I'm just trying to share concerns I had in the news with you. If you don't want to hear it, then that's your right, but then THIS is how I feel about YOUR material and message as well. " I walk over to the trash can and tear in half the Memorial invitation and WT magazine and throw it away. I walk away and say, " You have a good day- just keep ignoring the fact that child molesters are in your Jehovah's Witness congregations and keep letting them get harmed. I've informed you. "

It felt very empowering doing this and even though " older elder skinny grandpa " was vitriolic towards me- I feel that his wife WILL do some research on the child abuse. That's all I was trying to accomplish, Just get the word out and then perhaps JW's will start discussing it among themselves. I stayed respectful- but I did NOT let myself get run over either. Stood up for what I believe in. And that is about spreading the REAL truth. As always look forward to your comments, any suggestions you might have for next time if I do this again ( which I plan to do ) and observations. Take care, Peace and love to you all- a big Peace out ! Mr. Flipper