ordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
Gweedo: You said, "God ... creates people ... he deprives them of eternal life (which is punishment however way you look at. Deprivation is punishment)."
God also creates cows, chickens, rattle snakes and mosquitoes. Simply because he creates them does that mean he is morally required to give them all eternal life? Is he punishing them if he doesn't?
ordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
Joe asked >>>>> If there really is a god who could have made us uncorruptible, thus forcing us to love him perfectly, he likely would have done so, don't you think?
I don't. Because you can't "force" someone to love you. Anyone knows that. Even Joe. But he would rather die than admit any Christian is right about anything.
As AC said earlier, true love can neither be forced or programmed. If I hypnotize someone into showing adoration for me, does that person really love me? I don't think so. If I build a robot and program it to always faithfully serve and obey me, does that robot love me? I don't think so.
Give it up Joe. As usual, you have lost another argument.
ordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
Joe: I just looked up that old thread. Maybe if you quoted his statement in context it would make more sense.
He wrote: [In "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"] the accent should be placed on the word "and." As in "the knowledge of good AND evil." For God knew that, as free people, Adam and Eve could not possess any knowledge of evil. For simply having a knowledge of evil corrupts free people and makes them unworthy of eternal life. How so? Because when free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil. And, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than God. Why is that? Because the Bible tells us that "In God there is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)
He did not say that anyone having a knowledge of evil is corrupted by such a knowledge. He said that people who are capable of doing both good and evil are at least slightly corrupted by such a knowledge. Because when corruptible people acquire a knowledge of evil they are often adversely influenced by it to act in an evil way. When they manage to refrain from acting in such a way they often at least consider doing so, which Jesus said was in itself sinful. Matt. 5:28 However, the Bible tells us that God is "incorruptible." Romans 1:23 That means that acquiring a knowledge of evil cannot cause God to even consider acting in an evil way. Because, like AC said, "In God there is no darkness at all."
Joe, if you ran across something AC wrote in some old thread that you did not understand and you wanted someone to explain it to you, why didn't you E mail AC himself? His E mail is open. Unless your intent was to publicly draw attention to things Christians write which make no sense to you, for the purpose of trying to make them look foolish.
ordinarily i would post this topic in the "bible research" forum, but i found the following on the "friends" forum, in the "tree of what" thread, so i will leave it here.. achristian explains,.
[when] free people have a knowledge of evil they always, at least briefly, consider doing evil.
and, even having evil thoughts for a brief fleeting moment makes people less righteous than god.
Hmmmmmm
some of my favorites are:.
"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.
all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.
Joe wrote>>>>>> Where do you get support for your statement, above, that “Solomon had not turned to those gods”? What do you think the verse below says?
"As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not FULLY devoted to the Lord his God."
This obviously means that Solomon remained a worshipper of the God of Israel, but not FULLY. Do you know what the words "not fully" mean Joe? No I didn't think so. I'm again done talking to you. Every time I do I am amazed at your inability to understand the English language.
some of my favorites are:.
"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.
all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.
Joseph: Why I or anyone else ever wastes their time with you I don't know. You have a heart like a stone and a head like a brick.
I just said, "Solomon had not turned to those gods ... He still served the God of Israel. He had, however, become influenced by his wives' false religious beliefs."
Like the Saducees, he had become somewhat spiritually confused. But he still worshipped the God of Israel. So of course he would not be speaking of other gods.
some of my favorites are:.
"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.
all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.
Because, Joe, Solomon had not turned to those gods to serve them. He still served the God of Israel. He had, however, become influenced by his wives' false religious beliefs. The Saducees of Jesus' day believed as Solomon had begun to believe in his later years. Even though they worshipped only the God of Israel, they rejected the idea of an afterlife. That is why they were sad, you see?
some of my favorites are:.
"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.
all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.
Joe wrote>>>>>>>>The absence in Ecclesiastes of any hint that Solomon had turned toward Ashtoreth and Molech, and the repeated reference to only the “true” god of creation, elohiym, is consistent with Solomon still having the near infinite-wisdom and understanding God--according to the 1 Kings 4:29-30 author--had given him.
Nope. The passage I quoted reads: "As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not FULLY devoted to the Lord his God." That means that, though Solomon continued to be a practicing Jew, his also paying attention to the many false religious teachings of some of his wives had caused him to lose faith in an afterlife.
some of my favorites are:.
"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.
all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.
Joseph asked >>> How could it be possible, Faithful, for God to have given to Solomon wisdom and understanding that was immeasurable, greater than all the wisdom in the East, a wisdom and understanding that was virtually as near-infinite as the number of grains of sand on the seashore, but yet not have given him enough understanding to comprehend that there was an “afterlife,” as you say?
"As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites. So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord ; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done." (1 Kings 11:4-6)
Since Joseph is posting to an exJW forum, I assume he was once a Bible believer. Since he no longer is, it appears to me that Joseph, like Solomon, lost some of the wisdom he once possessed.
some of my favorites are:.
"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.
all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.
Much of Ecclesiastes was obviously written to illustrate the perspective of a person who had lost much of his faith. These passages of scripture allow Bible readers to see how such a spiritually lost person views the world. God inspired their writing and saw to it that they were contained in the scriptures for this reason.
Of course today all of us here have the Internet and JWD. So, if any one here does not have a Bible handy to read Ecclesiates and see how such a spiritually lost person views life, we can just read one of Joseph Alward's posts.
