Welcome, YK!
I see you still haven't learned a thing in all those years, though.
Farkel
Posts by Farkel
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20Electromagnetic Pulse Weaponry
by You Know injust a friendly reminder, that on any given day, merely one large mega-ton nuclear device exploded high in the atmosphere over the united states, could fry virtually every "unhardened" electrical device in the entire nation.
numerous prophecies speak about the fall of the oddly yoked anglo-american dyad.
the only thing at this point that remains unclear is exactly when the downfall will occur and how it will come about.
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30
Field Service, Anyone?
by Farkel inthe human brain is a non-stop chattering machine.
it is constantly evaluating, making decisions and judgments.
there is not a human being alive that isn't an abject hypocrite nearly every day.
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Farkel
The human brain is a non-stop chattering machine. It is constantly evaluating, making decisions and judgments. There is not a human being alive that isn't an abject hypocrite nearly every day. When we engage in normal pleasantries, our minds are constantly thinking thoughts that are directly opposite to what comes out of our mouths.
VOICE: "My, what a lovely dress, you are wearing?"
MIND: "But YOU are still uglier than sin!"Stuff like that. Well, dubs are no different. I was thinking about my old field service days recently and about what I said and what I thought at the time. I'm sure what I did, said and thought were not dissimilar to what many of you did, said and thought. My field service "presentation" was probably not much different that what is still being used today, either. Despite the thousands and thousands of hours in Service Meeting training sessions, the field service presentation usually boils down to:
"We sure live in a screwed-up world, don't we? Just look around and you can see how screwed-up it really is. For instance, the news recently reported....(add the latest bad news here)....Would you like to live in a world that isn't screwed-up? The Bible will show you how, and these magazines will show you what the Bible should have showed you in the first place."
That's about it.
So, around thirty years ago for me, it was time for Saturday field service. We all gathered at the Hall for the text and the standard pep-talk, and everyone of us wished for the same thing during it all: "take all the time you need giving us that pep talk. The more time we spend in here, the less time we have to spend out THERE."
Then it was time to organize the car groups. Even though there were only about fifteen or twenty people, that whole process still takes another twenty minutes. Yep, everyone ELSE is trying to stall, too! Whoever is in charge of car these groups has this uncanny knack for assigning field service partners who cannot stand each other. I don't know how they do that. Finally, we are in the cars headed for our territory and going five miles per hour. On the Freeway, no less.
After we get out of our cars we survey the neighborhood and carefully note in our minds how many parked cars we see. In dubland, the good/bad experience of field service is in direct proportion to the number of parked cars in the neighborhood. Lots of parked cars = miserable field service day. No parked cars = great field service day.
As we are walking to our first door, a strange thing happens. The gravity in the neighborhood has suddenly shifted from "normal" to "black hole." Our legs begin to weigh hundreds of pounds and lifting them to take each step becomes a most difficult task. In order to not abuse our bodies, we respectfully subject ourselves to this new gravity and take it very easy as we walk.
MY VOICE TO MY PARTNER: "What a lovely day to be serving Jehovah."
MY MIND: "Can't you walk any SLOWER?"MY PARTNER: "Yes, it is. It is such a privilege to be sharing in the world-wide preaching work."
MY PARTNER'S MIND: "I wish he would walk SLOWER."MY VOICE: "Would you like to take the first door?"
MY MIND: "PLEASE say 'yes!'"MY PARTNER: "Oh, why don't you do it, so I can learn from your presentation."
MY PARTNER'S MIND: "I sure hope he falls for this one."MY VOICE: "Alright."
MY VOICE: "Just remember, NEVER thank householders for their time. Remember that we are taught that WE are doing them a favor and that OUR time is what is valuable in this life-saving work. Their time is not important because WE are offering something life-saving.
MY MIND: "I feel like a dork not being polite and thanking them for their time."We push the doorbell, but can't hear a ring. We wait five minutes and push the doorbell and still can't hear a ring. After another five minutes we come to the sudden realization that perhaps the doorbell doesn't work and remember that Jehovah is watching us. Jehovah is always watching us and Jehovah has also figured out that the doorbell doesn't work. So we'd better do our best to make sure someone is home. One of us knocks ever-so-softly on the door. We do this because we want to GENTLY wake them up from a sound sleep so we can tell them something we are certain they won't want to hear in the first place. After another five minutes and second knock which is a little louder, someone answers the door."
HOUSEHOLDER: "Yes? Can I help you?"
MY VOICE: "Good morning. Beautiful day isn't it? We are associated with a group of local Christian Bible Students in your neighborhood."
MY MIND: "Can't tell them we're dubs. Won't get anywhere by doing that."MY VOICE: "Did you notice on the news last night that....?
(whatever bad news-of-the day there is) It seems that these times are really becoming dangerous to live in. But did you know that the Bible has promised us that there will be a time on earth when there will be no more wickedness or death and that this time is coming very soon?
MY MIND: "It's coming in October of 1975, sucker, and you'd better be nice to me or God will mess you up."HOUSEHOLDER: "No, I didn't know that. But I have my own religion."
MY VOICE: "Yes, most people have their own religions and most people are trying to sincerely please God."
MY MIND: "But YOUR religion is satanic, you moron."MY VOICE: "However, the Bible has clearly outlined what it requires of a religion to be pleasing to God."
MY MIND: "And your religion doesn't cut it, bubba."MY VOICE: "In this Christian publication there is an article that shows you through the Bible what is required of you to please our Creator."
MY MIND: "At least I HOPE that's what it says. I haven't read it."HOUSEHOLDER: "Well, thank you for stopping by, but I'm not interested."
MY VOICE: "Ok. Have a nice day."
MY MIND: "You are going to DIE, SUCKER! DIE! DIE! DIE!"
MY VOICE TO MY PARTNER: "If Armageddon comes tomorrow, we have done our part and that 'goat' will be sorry she didn't listen to our message.The mark of a good book salesman is to always be able to adapt a presentation to the circumstances, so on the next door where someone is at home, we glance past the door and into the living room and see a big cross and a statue of the Virgin Mary(tm).
MY VOICE: "Excuse me, but I couldn't help but notice you have a cross in your house. You must believe in the Bible, don't you?"
MY MIND: "This house is drenched in demons. Better be careful."And so the morning goes. Same nonsense, different day.
All in all, it was a typical day. In fact, it was a GREAT day: most people weren't home. We walked up to one house and knocked on the door eight times over the span of ten minutes. It was always a difficult balancing act to determine just how long to stay at a closed door without having the neighbors wonder what kind of idiots would wait that long at the door of an empty house, or even worse, think we were burglars casing the place, and how long we could actually stay on the porch and get away with no one noticing how stupid we really looked. That particular house had no cars in sight, no drapes. We could see through the windows that there was also no furniture inside. The sign on the lawn said, "For Sale. Immediate Occupancy." But as we were taught, "one can never be sure where one will find a person of "Good Will(tm)." So we waited patiently for ten minutes just-in-case someone was inside.
One of the most humiliating experiences for pioneers like me who had quotas was that we couldn't even GIVE that stuff away. Even if we begged. I often begged, too. That's one reason we pioneers loved Laundromats. Laundromats are incapable of saying "No. I don't want that crap even if it is free."
We finish our door-to-door "service" and all again meet around the cars. Another fifteen minutes is spent talking about our experiences. Each of the "smart" dubs has carefully saved ONE precious "back-call" (that's what we called them then) to make before we would finally call it a day and the field service clock stops. The rules for making a back call were simple: if the householder didn't pull out a shotgun and tell you never to return or he would blow your brains out and if you put a tract on the porch which soon blew away, you could make a back-call there.
But before we made that final back-call and legally end our time-reporting, we would hear the sweetest words of all:
"Doughnuts, anyone?"
MY MIND: "YES!!!"
Farkel
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185
Long Intro From A Long Timer
by hillary_step ini am a new to posting on this board though i have been actively reading your posts the past while and i thank some of you for the interesting viewpoints that you have verbalized and that i have enjoyed thinking on.
i am still an active jw, in fact an elder of 20 years standing hence my need to limit information about my personal circumstances.
i have served in a number of countries in europe as a pioneer and elder over the past three decades.
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Farkel
Hello, Island Woman,
Welcome here.
(That's about all I can say without being a jerk!)
Farkel
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185
Long Intro From A Long Timer
by hillary_step ini am a new to posting on this board though i have been actively reading your posts the past while and i thank some of you for the interesting viewpoints that you have verbalized and that i have enjoyed thinking on.
i am still an active jw, in fact an elder of 20 years standing hence my need to limit information about my personal circumstances.
i have served in a number of countries in europe as a pioneer and elder over the past three decades.
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Farkel
: you are viewing me as a 'soft' target well, you are playing darts without a board.
With that simple statement, you just betrayed yourself. No JW would ever make a statement like that. I re-read my post, and made sure that I said nothing that would evoke such a response from you.
You are not that clever. I never attack sincere people and I never attack people who are doing their best to be honest.
You are foiled again, troll. The funny thing is, you must like getting discovered because you always do.
Farkel
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185
Long Intro From A Long Timer
by hillary_step ini am a new to posting on this board though i have been actively reading your posts the past while and i thank some of you for the interesting viewpoints that you have verbalized and that i have enjoyed thinking on.
i am still an active jw, in fact an elder of 20 years standing hence my need to limit information about my personal circumstances.
i have served in a number of countries in europe as a pioneer and elder over the past three decades.
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Farkel
Hi Lonewolf,
: Come on, now, cut her some slack.
"Her?"
: It takes no talent to nitpick what she says and find fault with it. We all have been very familiar with how complicated that scene is and the difficult decisions that have to be made.
Was there anything I said that could be considered to be "nitpicking?" If so, what was it?
: There's plenty of weeds in that outfit, but it does no one any good to pull up the wheat too.
Once again, I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I said some JWs are good DESPITE the organization they slave for, and not because of it. Surely you agree with that, and if you don't, well then, please explain why.
: Plus, her opinion is a sincere one, which, accurate or not, should be respected for that alone.
Did I show any personal disrespect for the poster? If so, how?
: By the way, good to see you two over here.
Good to you see here, too. Now, if I can only figure out that cryptic mail you sent me. A mutual friend of ours said you were pretty kewl. (He's talked to you on the phone.) I'm being stalked by another jerk on this board now, so I'm a little reluctant to take you up on your challenge just yet. Maybe I will later. You're ok. Someone I totally trusts says so. That's good enough for me!
Farkel
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185
Long Intro From A Long Timer
by hillary_step ini am a new to posting on this board though i have been actively reading your posts the past while and i thank some of you for the interesting viewpoints that you have verbalized and that i have enjoyed thinking on.
i am still an active jw, in fact an elder of 20 years standing hence my need to limit information about my personal circumstances.
i have served in a number of countries in europe as a pioneer and elder over the past three decades.
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Farkel
Firstly, I want you to know that I know you are NOT Friend. "Friend" is my friend and I'm quite aware of his personal circumstances right now.
: I have found in life that nothing is completely good nor completely bad.
That goes for Adolph Hitler, too. He liked dogs. But seriously, and in context can you honestly say that the "good" done by the WTS outweighs the "bad" done the WTS in a way that the "good" they've offered makes it worthwhile for folks to continue and put up with the "bad." In my heart-of-hearts I cannot see it so. If you disagree, please step forward and present your reasons why you think the JW faith has more good to offer than bad. Their religious leaders lie to them and they KNOW they lie. They doctor the bound-volumes to suit themselves. Every prediction they've ever made was wrong and generations of human families have been wrecked due to their carelessness. They claim to speak directly for God, but they are unwilling to assume any responsibility for their mistakes, yet they viciously enforce shunning and all its attendant tragegies for those who DARE question their words. They protect child-rapists in many jurisdictions. And I have a LOT more.
: Some of the most wonderful good hearted people I have met have been JW’s
Me, too. But that is DESPITE their religion and religious leaders, not BECAUSE of their religion and religious leaders. This is a very important distiction because the same is true in any and all relgions. And cults.
: and some of the most spiteful and deceitful that I have rubbed shoulders with have also graced this strange collective edifice.
Right. See my comment above.
: Is this experience any different from any other organization, religion, business, political party, neighborhood, indeed individual? I suspect not.
Right. That means that JWs are not the least big unique, doesn't it?
That's all I have to say for now, except welcome to this board, and please feel free to share! We are a varied group and many of us are unfettered with dogma anymore, so we tend to revel in that freedom of speech and possibly abuse it!
In other words, this ain't no Kingdom Hall!
Farkel
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17
Evil: Live With It. It's a Game
by Farkel inis good a part of god or is god a part of good?
which is the bigger thing which contains the other?
most people would say that god is the container of good and not the other way around.. if this is true, then good comes from god.
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Farkel
: We JW’s and X’s tend to be obsessed with righteousness or unrighteousness which is limited and personal. But you focused on the real issues in my mind, “helping, loving and sharing what you have with others”. This is GOODNESS. This is what Jesus was all about. Hope to discuss this more sometime.
Since becoming an xJW, virtually every JW I've ever met that has earned my trust and respect has said what you just said. Consider that a compliment!
Farkel
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Does God Play Fair?
by messenger indoes god play fair?.
once upon a time a mother bought her son a checker game.
little johnny was so proud to have something so shiny and new.
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Farkel
: Does anyone see this as the very root of all belief of JW's, if you take away the struggle between God and Satan, what is the point of the bible?
Likewise, if you believe in the struggle between God and Satan, what kind of a two-bit God are we supposed to worship, then? One who screws up and makes miserable lives of billions of innocent and puny humans who had nothing to do with the original "bet" God and Satan made?
Farkel
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106
new, nowhere to turn, ashamed & afraid
by azzazel inhullo everybody i'm new here, even though i've been lurking now for several months.. i have to say how afraid i am to post, afraid and ashamed but i feel if i dont tell my story, i honestly dont know what may happen to me or my children if they lose me, right now i feel like i've got nowhere left to turn and have my doubts about this place as well.. i know my story will shock you but i cant keep it in any longer.
i am recently disfellowshipped for immorality, the subject of a kingdom hall witch -hunt and subsequent congregational humiliation, .
during the process of the judicial committee meetings and proceedings no consideration was given to my real human circumstances nor to the spirit of survival nor human nature nor that of a mother seeking to protect her children from lack of basic fundamentals such as food, shelter and clothing.
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Farkel
: If this person really is who/what she says she is, apparently, she takes some strange pride or pleasure from wallowing in self-pity and feeling "persecuted."
1) a woman
2) a black woman
3) dirt-poor
4) screwed (no pun) by a JW judicial committee
5) starving kids
6) widow
7) unemployable/uneducated
8) doesn't trust people because too many of them have "hurt" her
9) won't tell anyone her story even if they beg...."But since you never asked, it all started when I....."
10) viciously judges people's motives and names names
11) is totally sincere, but no one else is the same unless they agree with her and get sucked into her gameHow many ways are there to spell "troll?" At least eleven.
Farkel
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Evil: Live With It. It's a Game
by Farkel inis good a part of god or is god a part of good?
which is the bigger thing which contains the other?
most people would say that god is the container of good and not the other way around.. if this is true, then good comes from god.
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Farkel
Thanks to all for the, er, "good" comments!
fodeja,
: I see no reason to postulate that concepts or ideas are "beings", existing in their own world. I also don't think the bible postulates that god created such a "concept of good" together with his first creation. God created a universe (release 1.0) some time ago, but the bible describes that universe later: from the viewpoint and within the extended explanatory framework of its successor, universe 2.0. The notion of good needn't have existed in universe 1.0, according to this model _and_ the bible (IIRC - I haven't wasted my time on bible reading for a long time).
We are dealing with different models here. Yours is more one of humanism, and I certainly have no problems with humanism. Mine was dealing with the Bible model. Since neither of us hold much stock in the Bible we would have to agree that I was only using that model to demonstrate my argument. Gen 1:4 states that God pronounced light as being "good" after it was created. Even though these words were written thousands (billions, actually) of years after the event, they still contradict your "Version II Universe" assertion.
dark clouds:
: Farkel you just simplified the concept of the yin/yang for those who were uaware of it. . . .
Right. And that concept makes infinitely more sense than the Bible model.
willy_think:
: if all was good at first, then when the "apple" was eaten it was not the knowlige of good and and evil. but the creation of god and evil. only we know it was the knowing that came into being,
and not the power of good and evil that came to be.Gen 2:17 contradicts you.
Trevor,
: I avoid using the words good, evil or bad. This is because to quote "Nothing is either good or bad, it is thinking that makes it so."
Me too. I prefer the expressions, "does work" or "does not work." They remove the right/wrong judgement and give fluidity to decisions. However we also both know that dubs live in a black/white world and have their own absolute concepts about what is "good" and what is "evil."
"Good" - selling Watchtowers
"Evil" - not buying Watchtowers from those selling WatchtowersIn short, dubs have a simple model for life and salvation. The only problem is, it is based upon the religious equivalent of "vaporware."
Farkel