Posts by writetoknow

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

I am laughing some great no nonsence comments by both of you. We do take ourselves too seriously and we do have a whinny society.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

Yes it would have. Is that a problem?

Another option would be to create humans who don't WANT to do wrong. Personally, I don't want to eat poop, and I don't feel as if my free will has been violated by the lack of that want. So if I didn't WANT to sin, then I wouldn't view that as an infringement on my free will either!

Another option would be to make it impossible for humans to do evil, even if they want to. I want to fly, but it's not an infringement on my free will that I can't.

Here's a question for you though: Does God have free will?

I've known people in mental insitution that ate poop it a matter of taste - so do you have a problem with that?

So is the person that eats poop free will violated when doctors prevent them for eating poop? So who says what free will is? So a person that is mentally ill that wants to eat poop should his free will be infringed upon if society say that its not acceptable? So its a matter of desire that defined free will? So if you have self-control do you have free will? Or if you uses your self-control do you have free will?

Commenting on something that you've have never been without is like stating I know how a dog feels the discussion ifs - is rather strange when no one can actually state what it would be like or how they would be if they didn't have free will.

So perhaps free will is a matter of laws and standards and rules that is accepted by society. So did God create man with free will? Did they lose that free will when they sinned? Or did they then know what God's knows good and what is bad?

So it a matter of who you consider God as to how you excerise that free will. If you don't believe in God then you listen to someone will or you couldn't live within society. Or free will isn't really a free will at all it is the choice to obey or disobey the rules of society.

You chose to declare Gods way as not real and your ways as real I chose not to do that. I think God know best and I appreciate His explaination of why He let people go on with living after they sinned. So according to your beliefs God is wrong. That's the age old story of the human race that your choice.

"Billy don't touch the stove!!! Or I'll kill you!!!"

*Billy touches stove*

"All right, that's it, I'm gonna kill you, but not until you grow up and have children. That way I can kill them as well."

Yeah, that's an ideal parent for you.

Why do you leave out the important option? You say, either he could kill him before he sins, or kill him after he sins. Why can't he prevent him from sinning? Or simply not kill him at all? Any parent who kills their child for ANY reason, is psychotic and would be arrested. (Even if the parent warned their child first... yep, there's no law stating that it's OK to kill your kid if he was given prior warning.)

I never stated that's the way God thinks that is your thinking of God's. If God is so eager to kill the human race then certainly he could create another and kill all of them and do it over and over again.

I think He stated He wanted "all" to be saved - and that He is patient that none should be destroyed. Well the government excute people all the time are they being cruel for allowing people children to continue to grow up and have families with the hope they will not repeat the misstake of their parents?

Past governments or tribes killed everyone and it still happen today in some places count your blessings you have the rights you do. Given by founding fathers that used God's law to create the greatest document written by man to date the consitution

Well there are no laws within our limited society history to kill children that disobey but in many society of the past it wasn't seen as a crime to excute rebilious children or sacarfice them to god's. One might humble themselve and realize we aren't the only group of people that ever lived.

Isn't that exactly what most religions think god is going to do someday?

Paradise earth = a place where everyone worships god all day, and if they have any doubts they are executed to keep the order.

Heaven = a place that people go to worship god all day, and if they have any doubts they are sent to hell.

Eden = a place where people used to worship god all day, until they rebelled and then they where executed.

No actually most Christain religion do not believe in a paradise earth. Most people that love God and Christ do not find His rules oppressive they are thankful for them and long to live in perfect harmony with them.

And no they don't think God is looking for reasons to destroy them if they disobey His rules and they have thousand of years of man governing his life to show God must have some patient even after killing His belove Son. Know they trust that God will keep His promise if they put faith in the blood of Christ He will not destroy them for sin. And they actually pray for their enemies.

Furthermore, government killing many of his people for thousands of years show God must have some self-control. Moreover, if that was true then he kill both of us for this discussion.

Hitler made laws too He must be evil. It's not the fact that he made laws, it's the fact that the laws where unjust. Eating a fruit is about on the same level as a parking ticket. Any government that executes people and their children for a parking ticket or for stealing from the produce department is completely unjust and also insane.

Why do you keep bringing up robots? What's wrong with god creating robots instead of humans? Sure I like my free will, but that free will has caused a lot of problems. The whole POINT of religion is to go AGAINST your free will and do what god says instead, so if you can't act on your free will, then what's the point?

Once again it depends on where your at in history - people were kill for disagreeing with kings and dictators.

So if one chooses to shoot a drug in their arm that cause death does that mean a parent is evil because they don't contol their person and take the needle out of an adult childs arm? Are they an adult or a minor child do they have the right to destroy their life or not? Well we live in a polictically correct society have you dealt with drug addicts that want to continual using drugs? Even after intervention most continue to use,

No parent can restore life after death, but God can and still helps the person in ways we don't know or understand. No one can state biblical how many of the people that die in the past are living with God right now. Maybe Satan gets a second chances and the most evil people that ever lived. Perhaps all will be restored to life - can you say that not true?

Hilter is really a bad example but your trying to make a point Hilter didn't need a reason to have some one killed. And probably he made some good laws and bad laws. God does not make bad laws only good laws it is man application of those laws that are the problem.

I'm not even going to comment on that...

Okay nevermind I will: You seem to have a perverted view of atheists. All of your arguments are directed against the strawman 'Angry Atheist' that your religious leaders have led you to believe in. That's not who you're talking too...

I, a real atheist, say: Believe whatever you want, but if you insult me, I'll correct you. If you blow up towers, I'll bash you. If you tell me I'm going to hell, then I'll tell you where you can stick your beliefs. If you try to tell me that everything would be better if we all believed in Yahweh, I'll explain why that doesn't work.

If you're polite, I'll be polite. If you get snooty, I'll probably still be polite. But all in all, your beliefs don't bother me until you start rubbing them in my face or using them as an excuse to do evil.

Did you notice what just happened? You had a discussion with atheists, and none of them called you stupid or insulted you... That doesn't sound right though, because you believe in "The Angry Atheist". Angry Atheist should have insulted you by now!, but he didn't!! So you insulted yourself, claiming that's what the atheists believe instead.

Well have fun with that! If you want to talk to a REAL atheist though, we're here.

Yes you will bash me and correct me. That is a fact, unforunately I have friends that are "real atheists" and they like bashing me also so your in good company. So you belive in the Golden Rule if I am polite then you'll be polite but that wasn't the tone of this thread. So the rule is oneside it applies only to atheists?

Know I don't believe in the "Angry Atheist" I've experience it through out my life on all levels. My point was not about Atheist or Pangans or any group in this thread is was about people blaming God for shedding blood. I also like you believe rules apply to the goose and gender not just the goose. And I have friend that are REAL Atheist and they do get angry when someone talks about God and His words as it true of Christian I know when Atheist talk about their beliefs.

The the buzz started just like you got involved. I stated that people will never agree on anything. I stated people will never not disagree with God. I stated there enough blood to go around for everyone.

I also stated that people who don't believe God is reals - why should it bother them whatever he does. I also state because Pagans believe the bible was stolen from them then who are the argry with for writting the bible?

If you claim I have no authority to quote God because according to your beliefs He does not exist. I am certainly not going to take some mans beliefs seriously. I lived long enough to see what people will do and have done to each other over beliefs manufactor by man.

Moreover, the thread was started to provoke a reaction from someone and this is a site that has a lot of people on it that our ex JW's so everyone knows what's happening becaues it happens all the time. I can handle it and I am sure you can to.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

I think He should created robbots and a superior race! That way no one would have to deal with right and wrong choice and free will - that would have solved the problem. I think he should have never allowed people to sin in the first place how unrighteous of God. And I think all loving parent have the same obligation if a child wants to choose a wrong course - kill them before the get a chance.

And since He has the power why not build concetration camps for those that disagree. In fact send one of those angle down here on earth make everyone bow down to God and everytime someone has a doubt the angle could kill them or explain why God ways are right. Cut of the air, block out the sun stop the experiment for god sakes.

I agree don't give man a chance to experiment with governing his life what issues could be involved with that nonsence? Don't let them think about it kill them outlaw them jail them so no one can recall God.

Wow where would I have gotten such a novel idea comparing mans governemt to God's governemt? Jee I must be really enlighten that never been done before. Shame on me for thinking such uneducated things. God couldn't have any laws or rules why would He want that? And if He created mankind He must of done so - so He could be a slave to them.

I forgot for all you peope worshipping God that He has been outdate and replace recalled the product will have to go on the black market if you wants some. Any body standing up and saying I am a Christain is now outdated - worshiping God is dangerous to your health. All Christain have now been declared evil for sharing their teachings. Drop your bibles and back away from your churches your places of worship are the worst product on earth.

Adam sin its God's fault, Adam chose to sin its God fault, Adam died spiritually on that day its God's fault, God let him physcially live for almost a thousand years its God's fault. God made a law He must be evil. God said "no" He is wicked. God should have created robbots He didn't He's outdated.

I forgot anyone that is educated understand you can believe in anything but the God of Christainity that's like old science it has been disappoved according to the smart people of this world. And of course who would want to be consider a fool for believing in oh how I hate the word Christ.

God is nothing more then a product wrap up packaged and sold to the massive. All these stupid massive that weren't educated until our most enlighten generation what were they thinking.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

If God has any rights or standards and really does have a kingdom/government. If He is the creator of mankind and never created man to live outside His government (from heaven not earth) then the process of atonment is simple.

Government have laws the laws are not at the whim of every personal emotions or debate that people can conjure up because they don't agree. (The history of mans government will testify to this fact).

God set the rule of law that anyone violating His rules is called sin. Sin according to God equals death. If there is no other message that is clear throughout his word this one certainly is. No government hands out pardons like candy. There is a number of standards that have to be meant legally for the average person to get a pardon (unless you work for the top man) it is very rare toget a pardon.

When a government say you want your record clean and to be restored to the full privileges of citzenship in the government. One knows that legal requirment have to be meant. Those requirments are not forced they are a privilege that should be respected.

God satified His legal requirments as discussed on this thread in a gift to mankind through His son's blood. Rather one likes those requirments or not is not important those are the rules if one doesn't obey the rules does not diminish the rule of law. Moreover, it does not change the government or does it require the king of that govenment to make people into His subjects through coercion

It simply leaves away open for salvation from the death pentalty. For that reason God gave His people the Law to express in no uncertain terms that no man born of sin could live perfectly under the His Law without pardon(s) yearly and quartly.

Some wanting to prove themselves righteous by their own right-ness rather then the Kings Law stated we don't murder. Christ say if you hate a person in your heart you have murdered. We don't commit adultry. Christ said if you look at a woman with passion you have commited adultry.

If you cannot live up to the Law without pardon(s) then how will you live up the perfect Law of Love?

So does a person have a free will to remain in death if they choose not to use the pardon process. Billions of people have come and gone since the pardon was made into God's law. Did God force any of them to take the pardon? Can a person force another person to unwilling take the pardon?

Thats the point Christ showed the law lovers that God reads the heart not the law and there was no fooling him by legal arguments. And your right God has to be appeased because although we think we are alive were aren't according to God's standards of life that He created. So you lose nothing but this life which God views a death.

Life is not about law to God it's about love and willing association any violations of this law is not against man but God who created the law. Any forcing of His will on the human race is and would be resented and against God's law. Thats why Christain pray that God's well be done on earth. So if your dead in your sins and God see you as such what is destoyed? Nothing from nothing is nothing. Life starts for God at the accepting of the pardon it is completed in the gift of eternal life.

Because we live at a time in history where people openly disgree with the rule of law and demand their personal form of rightness does not change the law of the state or the government. If a person thinks it does in their imaginary world of what is fair. Spend some time in a court room when people trie to sprew their BS to the judge. The hardest person in the world learns a valuable lesson in humility they are put into check and they find out all their sick twisted thinking has been judged by a higher authority. And there is an order to law and it will be respected willing or unwillingly.

People vehemently disgree with the law they twist it hate it they no better then the founding fathers they just can't stand it. But when they break it there is still consequence and they won't be held in honor by the government for doing so.

Practioners of the law usually have the least respect for it. They some how confuse the knowledge they have of the law as a get out of jail free card. If they are smart enough to practice the law then they are smater then the creator of it.

What I see on this thread are people agruing law and questionings laws most ex-practioners of the law they are smater then the person that made the law. They live in a democracy and assume God government is for the people by the people.

They want to discredit God and make Him bow to there teachings. It called circular thinking there is no God but I blame God for all the evil religion has done. I don't want to be bother by religious thinking yet I post provacative statments about God to get a rise and then I am a victim of Christain narrow-minded views. I don't believe the bible but I want to quote other views of man and expect you to believe them over the bible.

God ways aren't fair, mans ways aren't fair, life isn't fair I am a victim of life. Hey welcome to reality! man spills lots of blood for his causes religious or otherwise. And there are billions of figures pointing from the human race at God - if one thinks God is going to role up into a fettle position because people don't like Him or his ways aren't fair. Wait until we enter into the real court room.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

Kinda sounds like kids my dads better then yours! So really you just made my point people like shedding blood in the name of god/God/Paganism/Government/Big Business whatever, but its a whole lot easier to blame someone else but themselves.

There no subject on this earth people cannot argue both sides of the issue and claim they have it right. There is no moral sickness that humans cannot justify if the want to do it. (that doesn't mean it right because a person can argue point.)

Thats the reason the bible say all men are liers and their hearts are treacherous. Furthermore, we all read other peoples thoughts and vehemently argue the point and some are willing to kill for mans thoughts.

So the questions is what is the person motive? When that it found out then you know the reason they will die for a cause and kill for a cause and shed much blood for that cause. The reason people come together in groups is to create an order so something can get done. Rules and laws don't allow for everyone personal feelings and it forces a forward movement to accomplish something rather then everyone personal opinion that becomes the rule of law.

Does the group have anything to do with God? Perhaps some of it does perhaps most of it don't. Does that mean people know God's thoughts because of the group? Well you stated the things are so obvious - where those that believe in God got their information from. Well if everyone has an opinion and people have motives what can anyone believe?

And that's point isn.t it, this forum has mainly X JW's on it I am one myself. We were dupe into believing religious doctrine that wasn't true. What was are motive for getting involved with a black and white group in the first place? Was it to serve God or be right on every subject? Many were brow beat into submission because everytime they had a question there was an answer. Some thought yea man I am special I like the idea everyone else being wrong and we are the only ones that have it right.

Theres thousands of people that live a lie rather then leaving the group. The ones that go or are disfellowship are so overwhelmed that if JW's didn't have the truth there can be no truth or there can be no God.

Few of us probably got on our knees and ask God what He wanted in the first place what is the truth according to Him not man? Why because we honestly believed God decieve us. Jehovah Witnesses were taught to hate all other religion and put them down judge them and mock them and they are proud of it. What left after you go that way nothing! Amazing we used the bible like a big maginfying glass to see all the imperfections in other religous groups.

Few of us learn love, peace, kindness the fruit of the spirit. So what can they think if they hate and find fault with all groups then 1 + 1 = 2 then thats the way God feels about religion and man. Most aren't open to any further understanding of God they had the so called truth.

So what does a person do that has a vacuum and the believes they have the right to judge all other religions on earth and their religion is taken away? Do they learn to be more balance from the experience of inbalance. Do they learn to listen to God or man from the experience. Do they learn to be fair and more tolerant. Do they listen to people they once judge as less then human and learn that they to hold their belief with great conviction. Do the realize that God has also been misrepresented by their actions and the groups. Do they honestly seek truth and spirit instead of law and judgment and doctirne. Do they learn that all men come together in groups toget things done and the motives are usually good and for good works. Do they stop judging once they learn if they had been mislead perhaps many other have been just as mislead.

So each person stating so called fact on this thread also has a motive and that motive was formed by experience. So the big pictures is man's history cannot be argued away on this thread or in any book it is written in blood.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

Here what I mean about double standards.

1.) It is repeated and stated on this thread that God is not real He is man made and so is His word the bible. Yet He is hated for those stories written by men in the name of a God - so why should these stories bother you if they aren't real.

2.) It is claimed on this thread that the bible was stolen from pagan beliefs. Then who wrote the stories of Job and Christ the pagans or believers in God?

So who are we blaming, if God does not exist, the magical pie in the sky. Or the reflections of our own hearts.

If paganism is the only thing that is real and everything was taken from their teachings who are we hating pagans or a make believe God or Christian that stole those stories?

Are we any smarter then past generation when we talk in circles?

So is about blame; people must have someone to blame for their problems most often that is express in hate. Why is everyone so mad at the unreal pie in the sky? Don't you love kids that have all the answers in their limited 20 some year of life.

How much better they do the job then their parents. Hey sometimes the kids are right but the process of growth doesn't start until the hate stops.

Now we know why people killed Christ they really were killing themselves.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

Most gods in the history of man have been cruel and and renown for shedding blood so which god/god's are you talking about in paganism? You seemed focus on God cruelty not mans or any other diety. I think the point was how proud and how much better paganism is then being a Christian or a beliver in Job's God.

If anyone should have been bitter about bad treatment by God you would think Job and Christ would have become converted pagans. However, I think both of them were more concern with trying to be faithful during their trials to God and they seem to understand after the fact what was happening. And David of course seem to be full of joy because of his many trials. People serving their country losing limb and sutaining injury think its a worth cause. Some don't but does that nullify the sacarfice of those that gave their lives for a cause?

There nothing stange about people serving a greater cause then themselves or being tested for doing so. It like saying my country wanted me torture by the emeny they really hate me so that the reason they let it happen. Oh yes I forgot God is all controlling so he should make people do the right thing. He should force people to stop there bad habits he should force people to obey His rules, He should kill anyone the minute they make a choice for themselves He dosen't like or He isn't love. He should not expect any loyalty from His creation. He should let us run our own life or He is a cruel dictator. I mean lets get real.

Man is must be nice to have a punch bag for all of our hates. The defination of Love would be agree with me on every subject don't expect anything and let me have whatever I want when I want it.

And there are many modern day examples of people going through trials that don't hate God.

So my point is really simple everyone can do it better and everyone has the answers to all mans problems and everyone can tell God how to run things I don't care if your a pagan a Christian or any of the other of the thousands of faiths/religion on earth. And the history of the human race stands loud and clear man loves shedding blood and the gods they worship enjoy love it also.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

Thank you for your very fine points. I would appreciate and suggest the same is true for many that practice Christainty and it equally true that they take offence at the slanderous comments made about their sincere efforts to worship Christ with or without an group of people put into a business called religion.

The point is double standards should not apply and for those that are calling yourself a pagan or what ever blaming God or gods for all mans ills is really calling the kettle black. There is plenty of blood shed and blame to go around past and present everyone is a victim of false teaching and misdirect people in the name of religion (not just Christian).

Man can will shed blood with or without God's help and man can will and does expect humans to sacrifice life for a cause religious or otherwise.

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

Thank you for your very fine points. I would appreciate and suggest the same is true for many that practice Christainty and it equally true that they take offence at the slanderous comments made about their sincere efforts to worship Christ with or without a group of people put into a business called religion.

The point is double standards should not apply and for those that are calling yourself a pagan or what ever blaming God or gods for all mans ills is really calling the kettle black. There is plenty of blood shed and blame to go around past and present everyone is a victim of false teachings and misdirect people in the name of religion (not just Christian).

Man can will shed blood with or without God's help and man can will and does expect humans to sacrifice life for a cause religious or otherwise. To state God is evil because he offered his Son is about as tragic as the fireman that give their life trying to save life. People do not like their beliefs mocked and when it is done to them they want respect and are offended. That was my point in my many post on this thread anyone can find fault and call it critical thinking if it does not mean anything to them. However, it is another matter when it done to them.

Just because people took a stand for a religion and it proved to be wrong and hurt other because of the teachings - does not mean nothing is right about God or the bible. Those standards are so far out that man could not improved if everytime something was found to be wrong in any field of life. Then they started doing everything they could to hate and disprove anything on the subject .

That is in itself a form of religious fanaticism.

The word salvation is ungodly? Salvation: saving or being saved 2. deliverance from sin and damnation 3. person or thing thats saves.

I've seen a lot people saved from death and many lost to death being saved from death was never a dirty word to any that were saved. They appreciated the person saving them. So if these people doing the saving are ungodly for providing salvation to a person in need we have become very sad people over words or very self-centered

110

A PUZZLING QUESTION...????...????...????

by Terry in

the "sacred secret" of god that creation was yearing to glimpse for so long was jehovah's plan of salvation and righteous government rescue operation.. yet, pagans, heathens and various crackpot primitives all came up with the same plan long before jehovah's was "revealed".

something smells bad about this!!.

i find it puzzling.. child sacrifice to appease wrathful deities is a disgusting solution to crop failure.

writetoknow

If you remove the God factor it would be preverted veiw. If you put the God factor in then it would be much longer then a 1000 years of His children killing each other and filling the earth with human blood.

If God doesn't feel anything for man and of course we do feel more then God for our children because we are God. So what? A childs death is no biggy - there replaceable aren't they.

And the court are full of people wanting vengence over the death of one of their children we must be superior to a superior being. I just can't wait tell they get OJ I never sleep again until just-us is done.

Jee what of all the tombs out there honoring war heros and what of those countries we've destroy for killing some of our people. Yes, I'v got it the beneficent wrath of the parent government- everyone sing the song of praise 1,2,3...

And let us not forget those that gave their live to forward space travel (science) shall we forget them?

How unrighteous of God for loving his Son how pitifully weak. And how weak God is for letting people do their thing by not breaking His law of free will. Oh we are so much more righteous I am certain we would do it better I just can't wait.