Watkins
JoinedPosts by Watkins
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1
the tactic of disdain for others called out as BS
by chickpea init doesnt matter if the group is a church or a gang or a sewing circle or masculinity itself, asking members to dislike, disown, or distance themselves from another group of people as a condition of belonging is always about control and power.
i think we have to question the intentions of any group that insists on disdain toward other people as a membership requirement.
it may be disguised as belonging, but real belonging doesnt necessitate disdain.. .
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Watkins
Yes
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7
A good example
by mrhhome into recap my story, i am married to a daed ex-jw.
this last year, i had to deal with a bunch of jw nonsense at a funeral for one of my in-laws.
even though i am a methodist, the whole thing really left me aghast and rattled my faith.
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Watkins
Jws would start a 'Bible wt book study' with her - that's all she really needs from their point of view - it fixes everything to "be brought in line with The Truth"!
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30
My decision to openly greet df persons in the hall
by Daniel1555 inat the moment i am still going to all the meetings (for family reasons).. we have at the moment 1 df person who regularly comes (already df for 1.5 years).. when i opened him the door i always greeted him but in the hall i didn't as others could see it.. now i decided that my conscience can not bear this any longer.
i will greet him also in the hall or when others are around.. if any elders notice it and talk to me, i tell them my conscience does not allow to not greet that person.. did any of you do that too and have some experiences?.
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Watkins
Do what comes naturally - smiles come naturally. (:
At one memorial I sat with my boisterous grandkids next to a lady I didn't recognise. After the affair was over I apologised profusely for the kids' disturbing her. I'll never forget the look of horror on her face - and she didn't speak one word. Someone told me she was df'd. But I didn't get it - it's really rude to not respond to a person who's speaking directly to you.
One girl in the kh was df'd when she got pregnant and wasn't married - and elder's daughter. I saw her at a fast-food restaurant once and it was the only time I ever tried shunning. Not pleasant, felt SO wrong, and I never did it again. From then on I always smiled and winked at her at the kh, and she smiled and winked back. I felt like we were getting away with something 'naughty', lol.
I saw her a couple years later when I was out, and apologised for that one time - she said she didn't even remember it, but boy, I did - made me feel awful. Good lesson, though.
I was shunned by a jw woman and her family once - I figured I was 'marked' for missing meetings and never going back. That hurt like I didn't think it could - and made me mad, too! Walk a mile in those shoes ... I don't ever run into jws anymore as we live out in the country - YAH!
Different people react differently. But to do the natural thing out of love and real affection - a smile, a hug, a few words... never wrong.
W
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Watkins
Funny! They must all be city folks, lol. We have fox around here - they yip, howl and bark. Sounds different from coyote and dogs, but a trained ear can tell.
So the "Woo-ooo-ooo-ooo" one is closest.... 'cause I know "what a fox says"! (:
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11
ALL OF US ARE IRRATIONAL even in some small way
by Terry inmy personal opinion is we all harbor some irrational ideas.
even the most careful of us have some small thing totally at odds with logical thinking.. i'll grant you, few people care about being rational!
and that in itself is a bigger problem.. but, i do make an heroic effort to avoid mindless beliefs, attitudes and thoughts.
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Watkins
Good point, Terry - it's a good thing to at least recognise when we're thinking irrationally... what we do about it is another mind exercise.
I'm still spooked a little about the dark, I'm kind of ashamed to admit. After all, I'm a grown-assed woman! (; I don't believe in ghosts, but there are still things that 'go bump in the night'. We live out in the country where there are freaky little beasties in the dark - scary raccoons, wailing coyotes and such, lol. There are rational explanations, I keep telling myself. So my brain knows, but my body seems not so convinced and the hairs on my neck stand up and my spine tingles... I walk faster, my heart be-bops until I'm bathed again in blessed light. I HATE that! It makes me feel absolutely stupid - what am I, 6 years old?! I don't understand...
PS - don't tell anyone - my irrational fear is a secret. Hubby thinks all the nightlights are for safe night time navigation, haha.
W
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26
Should I ''respect'' Bible and Koran believers?
by ThomasCovenant inbelievers in the koran/islam, that's all of them, not just so called extremists, believe that i, as an unbeliever, will be the fuel for the fires of hell.
that's nice.. they, along with all bible believers, worship a god who is, according to his written publications, a right bastard.
i despise their god/s.. i find that i do not respect their beliefs.. i cannot help but think that when all the philosophical talking of this, that and the other is done, they're just idiots.. i, on my down days, find that i do not respect them as human beings.
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Watkins
Terry - exactly.
Giordano - I've made the same observation about 'real life' vs. discussions on forums. Belief systems rarely if ever come up in conversation with ordinary people. Unless someone makes it an issue, or takes issue.
Thomas Covenant - a lot of people don't necessarily agree with every single doctrine their religion teaches. For instance, I visited other religions before choosing jws(duh... i know) and one drawing factor was that jws don't teach hellfire. I never believed it, ever, so was always at odds with what the local Christian churches taught about it. Same with trinity - the other churches teach that it's a mandatory belief, but I never accepted it, can't wrap my mind around it, don't believe it. So there was another thing with which the wt drew me in.
I don't and never have, believed many literal Bible interpretations - so much is analogy, symbolism, illustration. That puts me in the 'odd-man-out' position with religion to begin with! As a jw, I just didn't mention it... So, I can very well imagine that not all Muslims, Christians, Mormons, Hindus, etc., believe in every teaching of their respective religions . 'Unity of mind' in any one religion is a fallacy.
Your statement reminds me of the mixed reactions I found when I exited the wt - the Christians in my extended family were extremely glad that I "got out of that cult". But then, they were more than happy to explain that now I could get back to 'normal' Christianity and reinvest myself with the proper doctrines, such as hellfire and trinity... "Sorry, folks - it ain't happenin'! I don't feel the desire or need to visit your church, but thanks, anyway. (: "
So, I'm still outside religion, and that's where I'll stay. I like it a LOT out here, and find it a comfortable place to exist.... believing what's in my own mind and heart... in peace. As jws we were told we had to "fight for the faith" rather than "be peaceable with all men"... Don Quixote taught me something, lol. Let's be at peace, Thomas, and let others find their own. ((: Who cares what they think, anyway?!
W
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Should I ''respect'' Bible and Koran believers?
by ThomasCovenant inbelievers in the koran/islam, that's all of them, not just so called extremists, believe that i, as an unbeliever, will be the fuel for the fires of hell.
that's nice.. they, along with all bible believers, worship a god who is, according to his written publications, a right bastard.
i despise their god/s.. i find that i do not respect their beliefs.. i cannot help but think that when all the philosophical talking of this, that and the other is done, they're just idiots.. i, on my down days, find that i do not respect them as human beings.
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Watkins
Respect? Isn't respect something that grows out of knowing a person, the way they live their lives, the characteristics that make them respectable and admirable? I don't think that 'respect' hinges on what a person reads in the privacy of their home, their places of worship, or simply what a person believes in their own heart.
It's the same thing, isn't it - the same attitude we had as witnesses? Oh how much 'better' we were than anyone else - because of what we read at home and in the kh and the exclusive thoughts we entertained in our minds and hearts?
It's time to break those chains of hate and exclusive love, people! Love them all, apply sympathy and empathy as needed - give them a chance to earn your respect/disrespect by who they are as individuals. Keep an open mind for cryin' out loud!
W
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Do you recall your first encounter with a atheist? What was your thought?
by jam ingrowing up in the south everyone i knew believed in god, even the.
town drunk.
i remember watching some special tv program around xmas .
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Watkins
Nice to meet you, Vincent! I am an artist, too! I have one daughter and 3 grandchildren. I'm married to the love of my life(who thankfully is non-religious), and I'm an ex-jw, too. And I sincerely loathe organised religion, all of it. What religion has done "in the name of God" sickens me. See, already we have more in common than not.
I see people, not their belief systems. No, we don't wear signs around our necks... it's how we actually live our lives that reflects the kind of person we are, so getting to know/like a person doesn't depend on who or what they say they are, actions spell it out pretty plainly. Mom used to say: "Actions speak louder than words." So true, Mom, you were ALWAYS right!
If you're a kind person, compassionate and caring, and have a killer sense of humor, we will end up as friends, no matter what faith or non-faith either of us holds to - that is, IF you like me back, lol. But if a person is dark, complaining and mean-spirited, I steer clear. Religion doesn't matter except in the instance where you meet someone who LOUDLY and incessantly spouts their beliefs in order to sway or convert - arrogance, demeaning, belittling - instant turn-offs. I'm older now so don't have time for that... wish I'd had such insight when I was studying w/ jws... they are so BIG on belittling EVERYone.
To live a happy and successful life, to help others less fortunate, to love and be loved - we don't need a religon to do those things. OTOH, to be hateful, prejudicial, racist or a blathering fool doesn't need religion either, but somehow it seems to draw those types as well. I've met more 'good people' OUTside of any religion than IN them. Religion needlessly divides people and fosters hate, imo. Some feel an insulated sense of community I guess, but at what price?
So, back to topic - if this is my 'first encounter with an atheist', then my 'thought' is: you're just a person like me. You don't have 'horns', lol. We have differences, but that's what makes us, us, individuals. I would certainly like to be your friend. We're in this life together and it's all the time we have to make a little bit of difference in the world. Hope you don't think it's too sappy, but LOVE is the only difference that matters to any of us, imho.
Watkins
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Are Faith-based assertions falsifiable?
by braincleaned ini say yes.. common statement from faith: creation proves that god is love.. false.. the circle of life proves the contrary.
love is not the basis for the carnage needed for survival.
any loving creator would have adapted vegetation to fit the needs of all species.. no blood.
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Watkins
Hi again BC! - do you think there's a difference between faith-based beliefs and beliefs based on particular religious views? What if a person isn't connected to any religion and so doesn't base their faith in God on religious doctrines or interpretations?
It seems like most accusations of this sort are against religion, doctrines/interpretations... with which I totally agree. There's some weirder stuff than jws out there, and ALL of 'em claim to be the ONLY truth. And yet, they've all been proven false about something or other.
I think faith is experience-based, or should be. It's not something you 'learn' by listening to others prattle on or by reading this book or that. No one's opinion, however briliantly it's expressed, trumps what someone else has experienced. I mean, you might throw out the accusation that a person's experience is due to whatever - a head injury, mental disease, stupidity - but to prove that belief in God(apart from whatever religion claims to 'know' about God) is false(falsifiable) would be difficult, wouldn't it? Especially if there is no head injury, mental disease or stupidity?
Sure, A whole-helluva-LOT of things that religion teaches - like the Bible is the first and last word on every modern-day topic - can be proven false. So 'faith' in those things can not be justified - rationalised by those who believe them, but not justified by a truthful standard. But faith that's beyond the precepts of religion, faith that's based on experience and not mere 'head knowledge' - how can it be "falsifiable"?
Watkins