You have fallen for the "help-with-strong-but-invisible-strings" and have taken the bait. JWs NEVER offer ANYTHING to a nonJW simply out of the gooodness of their hearts. I can assure you that he will be witnessing to you in every conceivable way, hints on how "great" it is to BE a JW, vivd comparisons about "the world vs the WTS", and a continual and constant opportunity to bend your ear as a captive audience. He may not be outwardly "talking scripture" but he WILL be "pushing the Watchtower". ( It may take a little while, but it WILL happen. It is a given. If I am wrong....I will be the first to apologize.) I know Russ really well. I can say that he will back off if I tell him to. He has friends that aren't witnesses and he will stop witnessing when asked to. His best friend used to be a JW but stopped going to meetings, stopped studying, stopped reading any material and that sort of thing. Chances are here realized how bad the watchtower really is. But they're still great friends and he trusts him over anyone else and hes NOT technically a JW. I know what i'm putting myself into, There will be high speed internet I just called and found out. It will be an interesting adventure. I have many options if things don't turn out for me. Right now finding a roomate is very difficult so living out there in the cabin will be just fine until I decide to make new plans. I will be willing to say that if and when you visit ANY other church.....that he will be right there waiting for you where you live, picking "what you heard" apart and making these comparisons, with the Watchtower ALWAYS coming up smelling like a rose as against evil old Christendom. Being in the situation you have now agreed to place yourself IN.....you will end up either being extremely unhappy with this decision TO move in....or knuckle under to the pressure (subtle or otherwise) to begin another more intensified study of the Watchtower indoctrination program. There IS no Christian freedom in the Watchtower. YES! I agree 100% with this. He does this but ONLY on our religious talk time. Theres other times where i'll tell him I DO not want to hear his JW side and he will shuush about it and we will talk about music and other RL matters. He will poke in a few JW things here and there but they're very subtle and don't bother me. I do hope you use your time at the cabin, MichaelM, to put some money away in case things go south. I know more than a few Witnesses who have formed a dependent relationship with a study, in order to keep them in. Think about how dependent you are becoming on his help. The only dependancy i'll have is that HE is the one renting out the cabin to me. But let me say, he is a man of his word and he NEVER goes back on it and he doesn't stiff people. We have made an agreement that he will leave me alone with Witnessing if I don't come into the "truth" and thats that. Hes a very black and white person and I trust that he will uphold that. If not then he is a liar and i'm sure that wouldn't look good in Jehovah God's eyes would it? I'm not worried if anything goes wrong, which I really doubt it would. I have many friends and many hands that would be offered to me incase of any real danger. I've read about 50 pages into "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz. This was great though.. I was at his work and he sits by a window because its a drive-thru and loves talking to his customers while his wife preps the food. He witnesses to them and whatnot, bad for business IMO but he does it.. its his business. Anyways i'll get to the point. I brought the book to his work and said "Hey Russ check it out I got another Apostate book you're gonna hate!". and he turns to his customer and goes "Hey! Michael just brought another apostate book i'm gonna hate! this will be great. I'll tear it to shreds!" I followed up with "Wait... You can't associate yourself with Apostates can you? Then you can't read this book. It's full of lies and minsunderstandings right? I mean.. Raymond Franz just felt like writing up 400 pages of nonsense because hes under the great influence of Satan" And he responded with "It probably is all junk but it would be fun to poke at." Ohh but this book makes so much sense! I'll delve into it more tonight.But yeah, i'll be at this boards for a long time. The Watchtower won't get a hold of me. .. Heh.. I just had this picture in my head of when the Borg were taking over the Enterprise and they took Picard.. And then one of those movies where they brainwash all the students and they become these Killer preps. Yeah, that's what the Watchtower is reminding me of now.
MichaelM
JoinedPosts by MichaelM
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101
I've been studying with JW's for a few months..
by MichaelM ini've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .
but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
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101
I've been studying with JW's for a few months..
by MichaelM ini've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .
but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
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MichaelM
So I caved a little... I am going to move to the cabin by Russ. He gave me a deal on the rent and it'll be way more comfy to live. I also am finding out that there is DSL in that region because i have other friends in that area that have it. Russ said he couldn't get DSL but he hasn't checked in over 5 years rofl.
We had a long discussion today about beliefs , the watchtower and the Witnesses etc. We came to a conclusion, he said that he didn't mean he would think that less of me.. He was just dissapointed because he really wants me as a brother and whatnot. I made it clear to him that I am my own man and I'll believe in what I think is right. I told him just because i'm moving there doesn't mean i'm going to go his way. He agreed and he said he just really wants some company that far out from the main town and he genuinely likes me. So I said "So you don't mind if I become a Baptist, switch to Lutheran, and then go with the Methodists?" and he said "That's all up to you and i'll stop witnessing to you, but if you ever want my guidance spiritually I'll help you". He has cooled off a lot and I trust him. I think i'll be ok in the cabin I won't be pursuaded by his teachings especially with the knowledge that i've learned here.
>=D I really want to prove all his things wrong though, he almost seems haughty when he makes his logical points. I'll take things slow though. But 400 bucks a month for this cabin, and he told me he'd pay for utilities.. thats hard to beat where I live..
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Can someone explain Babylon the Great?
by MichaelM ini want to know what you guys believe "babylon the great" is.
the witnesses told me its all false religions and is described as some woman on a beast with many heads and some chalice or something symbolizing all false religion.
i think that was the jist of it.
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MichaelM
I want to know what you guys believe "Babylon the Great" is. The witnesses told me its all false religions and is described as some woman on a beast with many heads and some chalice or something symbolizing all false religion. I think that was the jist of it
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I'm starting to really get into the New Testament. This is great!
by MichaelM instuff i never really touched much when i was a studying with the witnesses.
i'm in awe.. amazed.. at the things jesus is saying/doing.. some of it is even putting me in tears.
one chapter that i really love so far is i'm in luke and i'm reading about the woman who came into the pharisee's home and started kissing jesus' feet and jesus told the story of the two people that owed money.
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MichaelM
Stuff I never really touched much when I was a Studying with the Witnesses. I'm in awe.. amazed.. at the things Jesus is saying/doing.. Some of it is even putting me in tears. One chapter that I really love so far is i'm in Luke and I'm reading about the woman who came into the Pharisee's home and started kissing Jesus' feet and Jesus told the story of the Two people that owed money.
This is great!
[quote] 36 Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37 When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38 and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner."
40 Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."
"Tell me, teacher," he said.41 "Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, [d] and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"
43 Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."
"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." [quote]
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101
I've been studying with JW's for a few months..
by MichaelM ini've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .
but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
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MichaelM
Ahh, I dunno where to start now.. the responding posts were great, especially sunspot that was really uplifting *smiles*. Again the help is wonderful.. I don't have much to say today.. Perhaps i'll just go along my merry way for now.. I'll update this topic if I have any more interesting talk with Russ or do go to his bonfire thing hes planning at his cabin. Catcha guys later.. I'm gonna get back to reading the New Testament.
Thats another thing... I can't remember why, because I don't think I asked.. but They say "Hebrew Scriptures" and "Greek Scriptures" and they do not call them Old Testament and New Testament. I found that kind of strange.
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By Chr*st! I think they are pushing Baptism!
by cultswatter inhere is that watchtower format change letter again .
christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.
2821 route 22, patterson, ny 12563-2237 phone: (845) 306-1100. .
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MichaelM
Do the Baptists push Baptism? LOL i know that sounds funny, but seriously. I'd like to know more about how some churches work. I was thinking of going to this one Baptist church with a friend.
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101
I've been studying with JW's for a few months..
by MichaelM ini've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .
but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
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MichaelM
Ehh.. To skip through things, He knew I was angry, I wanted to lash out at him because of my growing anger torwards the Watchtower. He keeps complimenting me with my Logic and how he knows I won't go to some stupid Baptist Church. He kept going on about how if theres True teachings then there must be false teachings and that is what I am recieving now from everyone else. But i'm just blabbing on because you guys already knew this..
I feel kinda bad now because he didn't mind me when I said I wanted to stop my Bible Study. He made a prediction that i'd go around and try to find my spiritual guidance and I wouldn't and I would go straight back to the witnesses. I'm a very undecisive person at times and i'm a "what if" kind of person. Which I am, but he frequently lets me know this. He could tell I didn't really want to move into his Cabin but he invited me out Saturday and told me to bring friends for a bon fire and he said "you'll see what its all about an dhow fun it is out here!".
I know what you guys are going to say, but.. Gah I feel crap now if I don't go. I'm really afraid to tell to his face what I'm thinking. I've broken down the issue. This is what I see. I want a father figure who can give me structure like him, but if I don't become a Jehovah's Witness then I feel he won't be that figure. Infact I can almost gaurantee it. If I stray away and do my own thing, i'll fall back into my confusing life that I have trouble taking order to simply because I just don't have that feeling of "structure" like I keep saying to myself. I'm thinking now though.. As I type this. Perhaps.seeking this Spiritual Guidance outside of the Witnesses will give me that strong safe feeling. Maybe if I read the Gospels and do a strong bible study and maybe check out a few churches here in town and find one that I seem to like.. Maybe i'll find that feeling that Russ gave me. *shrugs* I dunno.
All doubts about their teachings aside, your comments about your feelings throughout this thread about everything, your fears/concerns are your HUGEST signs about what to do. Trust yourself and your feelings on this, even if you cant get your head around all of the doctrinal arguments for and against. All of the reservations you have expressed are HUGE red flags
The interesting thing about this is.. I was told by the Witnesses to not trust my own heart. Because my heart is one of the strongest weaknesses that I have because we are imperfect and have inhereted sin. That I should trust Jehovah God and his Organization instead of my own heart.
Ah well, I'm off to play some pool with a friend. I dunno if i mentioned before, but my friend went to this one bookstore and bought me a NIV bible, brand new! It's really neat. The pages are thicker than normal bibles but its text is TINY! *squints* >_<
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101
I've been studying with JW's for a few months..
by MichaelM ini've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .
but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
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MichaelM
Welcome Michael. Use that same logic and ask yourself , Would a loving God only allow the JW to survive and kill everyone else on earth simply because they did not feel like listening to two stranges knocking at their door on a Sunday morning? Also ask what message do they bring to the door? Is there a message or just a magazine or book placement? If JW were really interested in reaching as many people as possible because they truely believe that they are the only ones on earth that have the "truth" would they not use modern technology and the media to reach many people. Going from door to door may have been the only means of getting the message across in bible times but it's not very effective now.
I agree with that and it helps me in my thinking. It saddens me that you had to experience such a thing first hand without the help of others as everyones helping me.I'm really glad that I found this place to chat with you guys I'll respond more to tehse informative posts when I get back.... and.. I'm gonna post in a little while actually.. I just made insta plans for food, and my friend is bringing me over an New International version of the bible. I'l be back soon to post. Oh! and if anyones still interested, not to be selfish, but i can tell anotehr story of todays talk with Russ and what he said to me about how i'm starting to sway away more from the watchtower and how he thinks im "hoopy" and that i'm too wishy washy. I'll post in an hour or a bit longer.
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101
I've been studying with JW's for a few months..
by MichaelM ini've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .
but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
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MichaelM
*blinks* Ahh, im heading to bed here in just two minutes.. but to answer your question I stopped using my NWT and am now using the Macarthur Study bible (NKJ) and a regular Red letter edition of NKJ.
My baptist friend swears by the NIV (New International Version?).
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101
I've been studying with JW's for a few months..
by MichaelM ini've been studying with the jw's for a few months and i've attended a few meetings but things are feeling somewhat strange...i don't quite get the jist of things but i feel that i'm learning more of what the watchtower teachers and less of what the bible actually says.. i never open my bible.. i'm always reading the watchtower pamphlets.
i really like the people i've met in the congregation and the guy thats been doing the studies with me has been an awesome friend.. .
but i'm just having some issues.. i mean.. they translated their own bible to suit their own doctrines it seems.
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MichaelM
Thanks for the compliments. I think i'll use the back off of the study thing.. I have a feeling that getting into a big debate would now be a waste of time.. I know he could be me in an arguement.. He could probably use some logic to convince me that we've never been in space before. Hehe.. to win the dumb debate! 40% is the gesture, 50% is how you say it.. and 10% is what you actually say!" my friend said something like that on false debates..
I'll stick to these forums and check out all the topics and fill myself with new information.. My eyes are a bit more opened now... And you know after I think about it, I almost didn't come back. After my first topic here, and seing the strange responses I ran away in fear but now i'm glad I decided to check it out.
OH! another thing he said to me today when I was being negative about the watchtower.. he said something along these lines "See, this is whats going on.. Satan knows your so close to the truth, hes pulling you away, all the false religions are trying to grab you at the same time, they don't you to have the truth.. Just as your about to find it, Satan will find a way to pursuade you." thats not 100% but it was something like that.
Anywho, I think i'm gonna crack open my book and read Luke and Acts, my buddy reccomended them, as I never did a whole lot of New Testament reading when I did the little studies.. Infact, all my studies consisted of watchtowers, that little blue book that reads "The truth to everlasting life" or something like that.