Posts by Flowerpetal

80

Why...

by Simon in

...is no one posting here?.

ok, i'll be the first !

Flowerpetal

Tina,
I never said you were bitter. I said you seemed angry. And I am not coming from whatever "JW" buzzword you say, but I feel the tone of your posts to me, as angry.

Let's get some things straight. The society can only make suggestions on what they think "Christians" should do. However, my husband and I read what we like, watch what we like and don't feel we have to run and tell the elders what we do. These things are done in the privacy of our own home. We also do not feel we must ask the elders or the WTS when to go pee, alright? I do not care if they should ever tell me we are weak spritiually because that is not for them to decide anyway. The only thing they can tell us is their opinion--which wouldn't be a fact. I know who my judge is and that is Jehovah God because I know that He sees all.

Fundamentalists are not the only people I talk to. I have been on message boards with athesists and agnostics. I was also on another messsage board where I was defending deists, atheists and agnostics against fundamentalists.

I listen to local and national talk radio. I like to hear what other people think and believe. I am interested in humanity and where it's going. I watched the presidental election coverage and stayed with it until Geo. Bush became president. I watched all the court proceedings, here in Fla as well as the Supreme Court.

You can put this discussion on the main forum if you like. You seem to think I am discounting everything you say. That can't be farther from the truth. All I am telling you is about my experience, and I have had over 41 years of it. I have already posted some things on the main forum as to why my hubby isn't an elder anymore, also about books I have read recently in the 10 popular books or whatever the name of the folder is. Also I mentioned that one of our former CO's, after he got out of the circuit work due to health reasons, came to a hard realization that the "real world" that the COs, DOs and brothers at the society haven't lived in, is a tough world to live in, because he saw many in his cong., with problems on top of problems.

I have a JW friend that I have conversations with and we discuss our concerns not just about the org, but Biblical matters and Bible writers, and realizing that things Jesus said came secondhand. We wonder about certain passages in the Bible should be actually attributed to Jesus, etc.

I have a good friend who says she is atheist, but I think is more agnostic. Be that as it may, I am glad to know her. She lives an hour's drive from me, and I go visit once a month and she buys lunch. We talk on the phone too.

So you may think I am hoodwinked. Go ahead if it makes you feel better. But you still don't know my thoughts because you don't know my mind.

---
In time the savage bull doth bear the yoke.
Much Ado About Nothing (Shakespeare)

52

Your Top Ten Books

by GinnyTosken in

jw
friends

i love the book lists on amazon; i get lost in them for hours.

recently someone asked me for book recommendations, and i thought it would be fun if we shared our lists of top ten books that helped us think our way out of the jw dogma.

im putting aside the obvious ones, like crisis of conscience and apocalypse delayed.. heres my list, in the order i discovered them as best i can recall.. ginny.

Flowerpetal

I forgot to mention that I also read American Rhapsody by Joe Esterhauz and Within Reason by Donald Calne. Don'r really know how to classify American Rhapsody--it was about the times which lead to a culture which elected Bill Clinton--so basically it was about him, (his "Willard" , Hillary, Monica and a bunch of other people including reporter, Ariannna Huffington.

23

I am no longer a Ministerial Servant

by cocolocoii in

jw
friends

yesterday was announced that i was not longer a ministerial servant.

to be honest i felt really good about it.

i literally was tired of been pretending.

Flowerpetal

UP>>The term "chosen ones" is almost a synonym for "saints" used elsewhere.
------

Yes I agree, and that's why I believe not all in the early Christian congs were anointed. Paul in some passages, seems to separate them from the rest.

11

No Invalid Baptisms

by metatron in

jw
friends

from what i gather at the service dept., there is no such thing as.

an invalid baptism.

they defined it out of existence.

Flowerpetal

Our CO, whose 3 years in our circuit is almost up, gave as one of his service talks one time, about the young ones getting baptised because it was the thing to do. Well the elders in my cong, when they had one of their meetings with him, told him they didn't like his suggestion because most of these kids that are pressured to get baptized, 3 yrs. later you hear a letter that they've been d'fd. So my elders, while encouraging baptism, are seeking to emphasize the spiritual side.

Then at a circuit assembly a while back, the CO stated that we should get the young one baptized, so in case the draft might be started up again, they would protected from that. What a reason!

His talk should have been more about what dedication means, and if one has dedicated his life to God in the first place. I find that he is strictly an organizational man.

A previous CO, after he got out of the work because of his health, realized, because he told me, that COs, DOs and even the GB at Bethel have no idea what the "real world" is like. He saw first hand in his cong,. the many problems the friends were having. I better quit now....starting to ramble.

2

the anoitted or the masiah?

by willy_think in

jw
friends

i found the translation for the word anoitted last night.

ya that is right it is masiah.

is the wtb&ts inc. trying to take the plasce of christ?

Flowerpetal

Willy>>i found the translation for the word anoitted last night. ya that is right it is MASIAH.
======
Could you share with us where you found this information?

30

I didn't survive an Apostate Convention

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

so i get this envelope in the mail.

i know it's, like, apostate stuff.

because it doesn't fall to the floor after coming through the letter box.. inside is an invitation:.

Flowerpetal

I liked it!

23

I am no longer a Ministerial Servant

by cocolocoii in

jw
friends

yesterday was announced that i was not longer a ministerial servant.

to be honest i felt really good about it.

i literally was tired of been pretending.

Flowerpetal

f451>>Yes, I am sure you do. But Jesus said you should partake of his body and blood only UNTIL HE RETURNS. So if you think he returned in 1914, NONE OF YOU SHOULD TAKE THE MEMORIAL.
-----

But returning and presence are two different things. He is present now, but when he comes or returns, it will be on the clouds and celestial phenonema will be seen so all on earth will know it's him.

23

I am no longer a Ministerial Servant

by cocolocoii in

jw
friends

yesterday was announced that i was not longer a ministerial servant.

to be honest i felt really good about it.

i literally was tired of been pretending.

Flowerpetal

Hi Scott!
I am still a JW. There are a few things that I agree with you about. Such as some of those Christians in the first century having earthly hopes. I also believe that God looks at hearts and circumstances of people individually; therefore only God judges who will survive Armageddon, and I dare say a lot of those professing to be JWs, will not survive. I also agree that Jesus is the mediator with those of earthly hopes as well as heavenly hopes. I also believe the Associated Bible Students are not apostates either or the "evil slave." There is a member of the ABS who posts here.

I'm not sure yet, if those with earthly hopes should partake of the bread and wine, although I feel that it might be more meaningful for us if we did. Not that I take that night irresponsibly. But it seems that there are those among us who have earthly hopes, who are more spirtually-minded than others, and take more seriously the significance of the Memorial, and other spiritual, Biblical matters.

My husband was removed as an elder because the CO said our kids weren't baptized yet. One is 22 and the other is almost 16. I feel that dedication and baptism are serious steps for younger people, and shouldn't be taken lighly; nor should they feel compelled to get baptized, esp. if they haven't made a dedication to God yet. And we were not reporting a family study. Well we didn't have a "sit-down" family study, but we talk about Bible topics a lot. We just didn't report a family study. Anyway, I just don't see why a report should be made on a family study. But my hubby has already told me that he will not pressure our kids just so he can get an appointment in the cong. That wouldn't be right.

I also have other questions that deal with certain scriptures which I am mulling over. What I am taking a look at now, is how or if the society will change now that they have 5 corporations and the GB are no longer on the two that they were on.

Welcome to the board!

80

Why...

by Simon in

...is no one posting here?.

ok, i'll be the first !

Flowerpetal

Tina you also said:
Cognitive re-structuring I would add in your paticular case along with developing critical thinking skills. Tina
------

Look I am sorry that your experience as an JW has hurt you. I am not trying to be insensitive. But you don't have to strike out at me as the object of your hurt or anger. My experiences are NOT your experiences. I haven't lost my autonomy or have lost who I am. I am ME and always have been, and always will be. [>:(]

---
In time the savage bull doth bear the yoke.
Much Ado About Nothing (Shakespeare)

80

Why...

by Simon in

...is no one posting here?.

ok, i'll be the first !

Flowerpetal

ANY woman needs the time I spoke of,ALL congs. are repressive to women. Your flippant remark doesn't change the hard fact of JW females and their second class status. When you get up and give a Sunday talk,become the School servant,lead in a prayer(w/ both genders present)become an elder, then tell me your cong isnt repressed.
What I wrote were just SOME of the recovery strategies needed by ALL women leaving such a patriarchal gerontacracy-some of those worked for me,others I havent mentioned,. You dont seem to undertand a general statement from a specific one.
Cognitive re-structuring I would add in your paticular case along with developing critical thinking skills
---------
I'm sorry if you thought I was being flippant. I just don't like the idea of women allowing themselves be browbeaten by a man. If that was going on in a cong. I attended, I would leave it and let them know my reasons for leaving. In the congs I have been in, I was never given the feeling that I was being suppressed or repressed. I would not want to be an elder, a ministerial servant, a school servant, or lead in prayer with both genders present. But that's me. Giving Sunday talks requires one being an elder or ministeral servant and since I stated I don't care to be an elder or ms, there you have it. But I can still be an evangelist--and that's fine with me.

I post on another board where there are Born-again Christians. In the area where the role of women in the "church" or congregation is concerned, they are in agreement with what the apostle Paul has stated, as JWs are.

There was a Branch Davidian woman who posted on our board for a while--and she felt that women should just stay home and take care of their families, and leave the preaching and teaching work to men---period, because that is what she was taught.

IMHO, JW women have more freedom within the realm of being in subjection to their husbands, as other religious groups do. And being that we are hearing more talks about how Christ treated his congregation, even giving up his life for it, and this is how Christian husbands should be treating their wives, then I say "great!!!" That's the way it should be. Some men, if they really apply the scriptures work to incorporate the manifestation of the holy spirit in their lives, will change if they were suppressive before. Others who give lip service that they are spiritual men, but really aren't, I will let Jehovah deal with them.
One brother giving this talk, even used the scripture at Ephesians 5:21 where it states to be in subjection to one another in fear of Christ--and mentioned that it includes men and women.

---
In time the savage bull doth bear the yoke.
Much Ado About Nothing (Shakespeare)